amt

Jagboi

From a BA investor day a few years ago, they said WT covers the operating costs, such as fuel and staff. WT+ is the most profitable cabin per square foot of floor space, CW makes the bulk of the profit and F breaks even. It was an reversed relationship, that 14% of the seats generate 41% of the profit.

Sealink

While I dont agree that the cost of a bottle of wine equates to how it tastes, I'd like to think that in BA First I would be served wines that maybe aren't on sale on my local supermarket. Mind you, could say the same about Dom Perignon...

Sealink

Someone should tell BA marketing...

simons1

Yes, but it wasn't the point being made. Just because it is sold in a supermarket or it costs say Ł20 doesn't make it a bad wine.

If price is your only measure of quality then this is probably the wrong debate for you.

orbitmic

There are plenty of cheap good wines indeed. That said, again, we are not talking about the average bottle price here but about a level of exclusion. Here BA are saying that any bottle above a supermarket price of about Ł15 will not be considered at all. That actually limits you to specific wine types and 'taste' (notably those not intended to age which by nature require a lot more work in terms of how they are grown).

There is a very practical consequence here: some of the high quality red Bordeaux wines that we are seeing in F at the moment will be the last of their types as they were bought years ago and they won't meet the price criterion, so we are not talking about a criticism of the current wine menu but about how the current purchasing requirements will exclude some of the current wine types in coming years, because even bought en primeur you won't be able to touch those at that exclusion price.

PS: I would also venture the guess that a number of F passengers do know he difference between an aged Claret and a fresh and fruity new world wine or between a vintage Champagne and a Spumanti despite some Champagne being totally pointless

DoctorCopper

TheTonyTraveller

simons1

That is if you assume the article is correct......

orbitmic

Ah, indeed, very true. If it is incorrect, my comments certainly don't stand. That said, I have personally no reason to assume a mistake (or deliberate mischaracterisation).

krispy84

icegirl

Why would the author lie considering everything went downhill after the new system came into place?

I do wonder however if the quality of wine (if it can) will fall further if a trade deal for Brexit is not finalised as costs wlll dramatically rise

simons1

orbitmic

That's a bit more complicated than that. When you see a 2006 or 2008 classified growth from the various Haut Medoc regions appellations or from St Emilion, it is not a wine that has been purchased by BA this year, last year, or even 2 years ago as it would be extremely expensive by then (not 13/11 years ago either, but several years ago). So while JR's assertions may be right or wrong, they are actually entirely compatible with the wine lists as we see them now. If she is correct, the disappearance of some wine types would only become apparent in several years from now.

And price is not a narrow criterion of quality. It is merely a determinant of which type of wine you will get. One could of course decide that F passengers should content themselves with very pleasant wines that are meant to be drunk fairly young, fresh, fruity, entirely enjoyable for what they are and forget about the more complex 'classic' wines that take a lot more time and effort to produce, represent higher risk for the producer and are intended to age, but that would be a fairly bold step to take and one which would certainly annoy a significant portion of the traditional F customer base (another portion would undoubtedly be completely indifferent admittedly!) and quite a few of the rare F pax who spend a lot of money to fly F because they want their experience to be "special" (this is just another version of the frequent FT discussion on whether F should offer burgers or lobsters. I happen to think it should offer both as I think some people are entitled to expect luxury in F and others just as entitled to want comfort and "homeliness").

I'm sure that many will disagree, but personally, I have the same feeling about wines. I am quite happy for BA and any other to propose a few very approachable wines which are exactly what a lot of people enjoy, but I do think that in F and to an extent in J, they should also offer some more "classic" options. I actually think that BA often tends to get this right in J though I'm still unsure how they balance the different wines offered on a menu (my last couple of trips just had two very similar Austrian whites for no particular reason. I like Austrian whites btw and enjoyed them both, but they were really in the same style). In F, I just find the wine menus very unequal, some months, they are very good, other times very disappointing. I had two F trips in the last couple of weeks and found the Meursault very good but the other wines that I tried very uninspiring and the sweet wine on offer outright unpleasant.

simons1

But the point is surely that people should be concerned with the quality of the wine being served today. Not the price when it was bought.