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Financial Times article on BA wines. FT gets a mention.

Financial Times article on BA wines. FT gets a mention.

Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:08 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
The point I was trying to make was 6€ at mass procurement level is somewhat different to what a consumer will pay, 6€ is misleading set on its own,
But it wasn't set on its own, JR clearly explained that this was the cellar door price, and I personally do not think that anyone on this thread mistook it for a retail price. So with regards to your point that a €6 cellar door price is nowhere near a €6 retail price, I agree entirely. JR's point, however, was that a €6 exclusion threshold for F wine bottles is extremely low and I agree entirely with her on that too.

For what it's worth, based on volume alone, I would personally be surprised if the bulk prices negotiated by BA for their F needs are any lower than those negotiated by Majestic and Aldi, but I am admittedly not privy to any of those companies' purchasing contracts. To be honest, I think that the lower end of your estimate/higher end of mine, ie around 15 is probably not far from right for 5 cellar door. I really wouldn't think that 20 or more is - that to me would be a cellar door price of 7-8 (€8.50-10) so well above BA's threshold, and I do think that my original lower end of 12 was too low (probably 3.50-4). I haven't had those discussions for a long time, but I seem to remember that a 10 retail bottle typically has about 3 worth of wine in it and a 5 bottle not even 0.50. Shocking stuff when you think of the amount of work and love that can go into those bottles, but that is unfortunately all too common in the food industry whereby producers get very little for their work.

Last edited by orbitmic; Feb 22, 2019 at 1:30 pm
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:15 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by Soupdragon62
I wouldn't drink a bottle of wine that cost me 15 quid at home, let alone expect to when flying first class. But when needs must I'll take one for the team.

I am a bit of a wine snob though.
I too would not drink any bottle at home that cost 15. Who would? Currently quaffing a Brancott Estate sauv blanc and enjoyable it is too.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:17 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
Really? You'd best tell Business Traveller and The Cellars in the Sky Awards, just this Monday they gave British Airways the Gold Medal for Best Business Class Cellar - it can't all be bad! Oh, and Qatar were awarded the Silver Medal in the same category. These were blind tastings, so the judges weren't swayed by fancy labels, it was all down purely to taste and enjoyment - much more important than price, don't you think?
Im wondering about that blind tasting. If it were down to the tasting, how did an airline that didnt manage to get a single wine into the top 3 of any of the business class categories (red, white, sparkling, fortified/dessert), win the best business class cellar? Seems odd that such an award could have been based on the tasting results, but maybe I just dont understand these things.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:18 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Greenpen


I too would not drink any bottle at home that cost 15. Who would? Currently quaffing a Brancott Estate sauv blanc and enjoyable it is too.
Yes, it’s available in Morrisons for 6.50 .... or as little as 5.25 in Sainsbury’s.

https://groceries.morrisons.com/webs...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK


Yes, its available in Morrisons for 6.50 .... or as little as 5.25 in Sainsburys.

https://groceries.morrisons.com/webs...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
Oh dear! I have been ripped off as paid 7 at Tesco. It is the 2018 vintage though; perhaps the Morrison/Sainsbury one is an inferior year?
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 2:12 pm
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Having done a bit of searching, it's not clear how BA's wines are selected. A few places name Andy Sparrow (and he's in a BA YouTube video talking about wine selection), but he works for Bibendum.

There was an overview article from Decanter outlining the scale of airline purchases - https://www.decanter.com/features/ai...t-life-372891/

Google also returned an interesting PDF on the Masters of Wine site (apparently confidential) - almost a tender document for consultants to be part of the process in 2019/20 - https://www.mastersofwine.org/downlo...AE3EBDA3AE49BD - there's also an html version here - https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 2:28 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by peter h
Having done a bit of searching, it's not clear how BA's wines are selected. A few places name Andy Sparrow (and he's in a BA YouTube video talking about wine selection), but he works for Bibendum.

There was an overview article from Decanter outlining the scale of airline purchases - https://www.decanter.com/features/ai...t-life-372891/

Google also returned an interesting PDF on the Masters of Wine site (apparently confidential) - almost a tender document for consultants to be part of the process in 2019/20 - https://www.mastersofwine.org/downlo...AE3EBDA3AE49BD - there's also an html version here - https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk
nice finds! Im a bit puzzled by the 9 choices of wines in F which detailed description totals to 8. Do they proof read their tenders?

as for the article, that Taittinger and sugar crew hand scrub sounds like the most shocking stuff Ive read on ft in a long time!!!
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:03 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by peter h
A few places name Andy Sparrow (and he's in a BA YouTube video talking about wine selection), but he works for Bibendum.
We know from last year's Conviviality-linked problems that Bibendum is a supplier to BA, so that surely comes as no surprise?
Originally Posted by orbitmic
as for the article, that Taittinger and sugar crew hand scrub sounds like the most shocking stuff Ive read on ft in a long time!!!
If they're doing it with leftover champagne that would otherwise get poured down the sink or the loo, then why not?

Interestingly, the wine tender document doesn't include champagne, so clearly there must be a different supply chain in operation there.

It's also interesting to see this side of the business reflecting some things that we occasionally see mentioned, like the cabin crew's lists including the phonetic pronunciation guide.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:17 pm
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This is what BA say...
Building a memorable wine experience.
The British Airways Food and Beverage team is defining the structure and requirement of the
wine menus. It aims at building a memorable wine experience for our customers.

The only thing memorable is how cheap the wine is. Nothing more than 6 Euros at wholesale prices.

No more Puligny Montrachet or Ch. Lynch-Bages.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
We know from last year's Conviviality-linked problems that Bibendum is a supplier to BA, so that surely comes as no surprise?
The connection obviously isn't a surprise. But where does Bibendums influence start and finish? The Decanter article says that Sparrow 'is the man behind British Airways first class wine lists', but he is a 'wine advisor' according to BA:

It's fine if BA (and IAG?) have outsourced their wine pre-selection to Bibendum - subject to later tastings/selections but, in the things I've found today, it's not clear how the process works
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 3:35 pm
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Over on the QR board there is a discussion about wines in the World’s Best Lounge (Al Safwa) that features Villa Maria as their top offering. Is something afoot in the wine world.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:01 pm
  #42  
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Greenpen
Over on the QR board there is a discussion about wines in the Worlds Best Lounge (Al Safwa) that features Villa Maria as their top offering. Is something afoot in the wine world.
I worked in the wine trade (albeit a while ago) and I discovered quite quickly that if people were told that what they were tasting was quite expensive, then they would be more generous with their praise. If they tried something blind, then they may have had different opinions.
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 4:28 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic
But it wasn't set on its own, JR clearly explained that this was the cellar door price, and I personally do not think that anyone on this thread mistook it for a retail price. So with regards to your point that a 6 cellar door price is nowhere near a 6 retail price, I agree entirely. JR's point, however, was that a 6 exclusion threshold for F wine bottles is extremely low and I agree entirely with her on that too.

For what it's worth, based on volume alone, I would personally be surprised if the bulk prices negotiated by BA for their F needs are any lower than those negotiated by Majestic and Aldi, but I am admittedly not privy to any of those companies' purchasing contracts. To be honest, I think that the lower end of your estimate/higher end of mine, ie around 15 is probably not far from right for 5 cellar door. I really wouldn't think that 20 or more is - that to me would be a cellar door price of 7-8 (8.50-10) so well above BA's threshold, and I do think that my original lower end of 12 was too low (probably 3.50-4). I haven't had those discussions for a long time, but I seem to remember that a 10 retail bottle typically has about 3 worth of wine in it and a 5 bottle not even 0.50. Shocking stuff when you think of the amount of work and love that can go into those bottles, but that is unfortunately all too common in the food industry whereby producers get very little for their work.
Based on that published tender document assuming total volume for BA of ~4m bottles, both Majestic and Aldi would be buying in significantly larger quantities.

Majestic has single product lines which sell in excess of 1m units and when you include other product lines from same importer/agency then individual contracts would be on a scale similar to BAs total annual as indicated on that document. They also bottle stuff shipped to UK in bladder as well as consolidate shipments to bring overall shipment cost down which i doubt BA would be able to do, certainly not to the same degree.

Based on what I know, Aldi probably order similar volumes if not slightly more than Majestic and the other multiples vastly, vastly more.

TMM
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Old Feb 22, 2019, 5:13 pm
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Originally Posted by The Muffin Man


Based on that published tender document assuming total volume for BA of ~4m bottles, both Majestic and Aldi would be buying in significantly larger quantities.

Majestic has single product lines which sell in excess of 1m units and when you include other product lines from same importer/agency then individual contracts would be on a scale similar to BAs total annual as indicated on that document. They also bottle stuff shipped to UK in bladder as well as consolidate shipments to bring overall shipment cost down which i doubt BA would be able to do, certainly not to the same degree.

Based on what I know, Aldi probably order similar volumes if not slightly more than Majestic and the other multiples vastly, vastly more.

TMM
It's an interesting question.

For instance: do BA have a special relationship with Laurent Perrier? Do they have dibs on Grand Siecle?

Another thing to consider is whether airlines should serve wines that available in local retailers. Does that feeling of exclusivity havr to be maintained?
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