British Airways told 'do better' as maternity pay policy emerges
Feb 8, 2019, 10:04 am
#31
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,216
Well said Flatlander! My daughter is 9 years old and mad keen on aircraft; no need to ask who she gets that from! I’d like to think that if her chosen career was in aviation, she will have not only an equal opportunity but an equal chance of pursuing that. Likewise, I would hope that potential employers have parental leave policies that encourage and not dissuade female applicants.
Feb 8, 2019, 10:25 am
#33
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
This used to be a dominant factor in the days gone by. Times are a changing, for the better, so keep hope.
Feb 8, 2019, 10:36 am
#34
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: WAS
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 1,757
I'm more surprised at the number of people who can't cope with women in the workplace. And still think of gender equality as an "opinion."
Feb 8, 2019, 10:43 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Bit surprised at the somewhat Neolithic attitudes here but don’t know why I am surprised.
A few facts: society benefits from birth so, yes, even if you choose not to have children it is in your interest that others do. Look no further than Japan and China to see where we’re heading. Wealth decreases when fewer are born as result of increased costs (healthcare et al). Pretty basic macroeconomics.
Companies that have better gender balances are largely equal or better performers and diversity in all forms is proven to be economically enhancing. I’m worried people think men should be in a cockpit and women can go elsewhere. Such single-minded attitudes is the last id want to be in the hands of in an emergency.
I do think scandinavia has gone too far (said as a scandi) and that the correct parental leave is somewhere in the middle. In my ideal scenario parents get 6-8 months with ca 40% for the man as a minimum up to 60% and if below 40% parental leave is forfeited.
A few facts: society benefits from birth so, yes, even if you choose not to have children it is in your interest that others do. Look no further than Japan and China to see where we’re heading. Wealth decreases when fewer are born as result of increased costs (healthcare et al). Pretty basic macroeconomics.
Companies that have better gender balances are largely equal or better performers and diversity in all forms is proven to be economically enhancing. I’m worried people think men should be in a cockpit and women can go elsewhere. Such single-minded attitudes is the last id want to be in the hands of in an emergency.
I do think scandinavia has gone too far (said as a scandi) and that the correct parental leave is somewhere in the middle. In my ideal scenario parents get 6-8 months with ca 40% for the man as a minimum up to 60% and if below 40% parental leave is forfeited.
The male dinosaurs that supposedly inhabit FT, aren't all popping up here.
BA seems very behind the times as a large blue chip employer in this day and age.
Why has no one chimed in with QR's policy as yet! This is the BAEC board after all!
Feb 8, 2019, 12:57 pm
#36
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,105
Feb 8, 2019, 1:11 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Meh
Posts: 2,594
I don’t see a reason why BA should do better. Obviously it’s more beneficial to have a male pilot who is going to work more time/years for the airline and if girls do want to be pilots a maternity pay benefit is not gonna sway them one way or another.
just all this modern day media reporting
just all this modern day media reporting
Feb 8, 2019, 1:14 pm
#39
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Meh
Posts: 2,594
Feb 8, 2019, 3:05 pm
#40
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bombay
Programs: EC Blue, EB Silver, FB Gold
Posts: 551
Something that surprised and saddened me when I lived in the UK was the amount of well educated and successful women who left working life upon having children. Lack of childcare, very expensive child care, inflexible employers to name a few factors. Not only is a waste of talent and resources, but excluding a significant proportion of the population from having a relevant career seems rather backward.
Feb 8, 2019, 3:18 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Something that surprised and saddened me when I lived in the UK was the amount of well educated and successful women who left working life upon having children. Lack of childcare, very expensive child care, inflexible employers to name a few factors. Not only is a waste of talent and resources, but excluding a significant proportion of the population from having a relevant career seems rather backward.
The UK is behind a lot of Europe but still ahead of most of the rest of the world
Feb 8, 2019, 3:31 pm
#42
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,515
I would say this is more a UK cultural issue than specific to BA. Why?
I remember mentioning Paternity leave to several different UK based firms that I've worked for (and currently work) and the answer was a scoff.
That's for women, basically.
In Sweden which is my home country and current base the state pays the parents 80% (of the median wage to be added) of their salary if staying at home with a child up to 8 years. You get around 350 "full days" and 100 with marginal pay, all off which can be divided between the parents. The father cannot gift all days to the mother, but there is a lot of flexibility. Many employers then top up the remaining 20% so the average Swede is doing ok while at home with their child.
Obviously, for those with a higher salary this is not such a great deal unless they've got a good package from their employer topping up further.
Often, those tied to a Union which has a collective bargaining agreement will get a top up from their union.
The result is that far more fathers are around for their kids!
I've had several 2-3 month summer breaks using paternity leave to spend time with the kids. It's great. Not all about the money.
I remember mentioning Paternity leave to several different UK based firms that I've worked for (and currently work) and the answer was a scoff.
That's for women, basically.
In Sweden which is my home country and current base the state pays the parents 80% (of the median wage to be added) of their salary if staying at home with a child up to 8 years. You get around 350 "full days" and 100 with marginal pay, all off which can be divided between the parents. The father cannot gift all days to the mother, but there is a lot of flexibility. Many employers then top up the remaining 20% so the average Swede is doing ok while at home with their child.
Obviously, for those with a higher salary this is not such a great deal unless they've got a good package from their employer topping up further.
Often, those tied to a Union which has a collective bargaining agreement will get a top up from their union.
The result is that far more fathers are around for their kids!
I've had several 2-3 month summer breaks using paternity leave to spend time with the kids. It's great. Not all about the money.
Feb 8, 2019, 3:32 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a cabin
Posts: 6,515
Feb 8, 2019, 3:41 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,159
A bit of perspective is needed here: yes pilots go through training and it’s immensly costly.
It is all well and good people saying their employer gives them dozens of weeks at full pay, pilots cost a heck of a lot and to sustain anything near full pay is really quite a burden.
However, I agree that airlines can and just go further to improve the paternity package.
AFAIK, once female pilots know they are pregnant, they are taken off flying duties and placed on ground/office roles until they are ready to fly again. Not sure if the period beforehand affects their packages.
It is all well and good people saying their employer gives them dozens of weeks at full pay, pilots cost a heck of a lot and to sustain anything near full pay is really quite a burden.
However, I agree that airlines can and just go further to improve the paternity package.
AFAIK, once female pilots know they are pregnant, they are taken off flying duties and placed on ground/office roles until they are ready to fly again. Not sure if the period beforehand affects their packages.
CASA rules are licence suspended at the end of the 30th week of pregnancy; not sure of UK rules but I imagine it would be similar
pilots are bonded (I believe at BA for a period of 10 years although happy to admit that could be out of date knowledge), so if pilots choose to leave they effectively repay the airline a proportion of their training costs
as a female with an interest in flying, maternity leave or lack thereof doesn’t even merit 1% of the weight of the “cons” column. There are so many bigger issues to worry about
Feb 8, 2019, 5:23 pm
#45
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,902
I worked for a US company just before the eldest was born as a contractor. I was gobsmacked that my US based permanent colleagues got 2 weeks max maternity leave. I could barely get dressed 2 weeks after the eldest was born, let alone contemplate being apart from her for more than an hour. We are very lucky in Europe.