Most indolent BA flight crew ever?

Old Feb 8, 19, 10:31 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by ens100 View Post
We had a very similar experience as the OP on a flight back from JFK last year. Seated on the upper deck on a red-eye the crew was so dismissive and gave the impression that they could not be bothered. Was a struggle to get dinner and any request (e.g. another glass of water) was met with a huff and a long wait.

Can understand the flight time may have played a part, but not the kind of service you would expect in business. On the plus side, me and the wife still joke about it and the experience has been set as the benchmark for comparison of all other crews.
Time of flight should have NO bearing on service levels. Crew are given enough time to rest and be ready, by law. If they did not, why should the customer pay ? Are we charged less that the going price because we did not get paid enough ?! Such service neither should be based on class of service as CW or WT.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 11:28 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
Time of flight should have NO bearing on service levels. Crew are given enough time to rest and be ready, by law. If they did not, why should the customer pay ? Are we charged less that the going price because we did not get paid enough ?! Such service neither should be based on class of service as CW or WT.
I do not disagree with you - however you are not taking jetlag into account. Oddly enough, I found it worse on East Coast than further afield. I am not making excuses for shody service but sometimes sleep can be evasive. I do not have to tell you that you can be awake at times when you should be asleep and then it can hit you like a sledgehammer. From LHR, this should not be an issue but I note that JFK has been mentioned and I wondered if they were on the last leg of a B2B (I'm out of it now and things may be different.

I mention this just to try and point out something that one could easily overlook. Having rest periods and being able to get sleep are not the same thing. This does not excuse lacadical take-it-or leave-it service.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 12:46 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
Let me say, please, that such bad crew as reported here are FAR from typical. With 0.25m miles under my BA belt, I feel entitled to say that poor crew are the exception. Most are average, some are very good ... and a mercifully small number are decidedly sub-par.

Letís not tar them all with the same brush.
Probably about 60-40 in favour of decent crew, based on my experience in the last few years. Some clearly take real pride and pleasure in their work, and I've had some lovely conversations with crew members.

Most of my long haul flights in BA CW however have been average to poor, with a huge change in attitude over the last ten years. It tends to be by team rather than by individual. If the first crew member you encounter is robotic and stony-faced, they all tend to be, and you just brace yourself for a hostage situation and knock back a few G&T's to dull the pain. And then you'll come across a whole crew who all seem cheery and positive, and it's a really pleasant experience. The problem is you don't know which type you'll get until you board, so I board with trepidation.

In the old days they all seemed pleasant and cheerful. I did wonder if social media (perhaps these types of forums) is feeding a culture of hatred towards customers? But if so, why haven't I encountered it on other airliines? Perhaps a few bad BA crews created negative feedback that's had a cumulative effect on others? Maybe we should try sucking it up for a while to see if things improve......
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:04 pm
  #34  
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PUCCI ... I spent many (8?) years doing odd shift patterns at h24 ATC Units. Morning/Evening, then Afternoon/Night, a Sleep day [starting at 0800!] and then repeat ... followed by Sleep + 2 days off for an 8-day week.

We ATCOs always delivered the 100% safe and efficient service to aircrew that was expected, as do ATCOs today. OK, no jet-lag, but 3 hours on chair cushions on the crew room floor during a night shift wasn't much of a bonus either!!

Just saying.
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Last edited by T8191; Feb 8, 19 at 1:16 pm
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:08 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
Time of flight should have NO bearing on service levels. Crew are given enough time to rest and be ready, by law. If they did not, why should the customer pay ? Are we charged less that the going price because we did not get paid enough ?! Such service neither should be based on class of service as CW or WT.
I've been trying to avoid commenting on this thread as 'MF vs WW vs EF vs LGW vs Any other airline' has been done to death on here time and time again. It's well established that BA crews are inconsistent, and this is even recognised from within the company.
I will say, though, that just because the rest periods we're given are strictly legal does not mean that they're necessarily suitable in all situations. If I operate, say, a LAS, PHX, SEA or DEN after doing 4 days of shorthaul immediately beforehand then yes - I will absolutely be knackered on the return sector after having just one local night downroute. There's an 8 hour time difference from these destinations and (like it or not) this will absloutely affect customer satisfaction levels. I cannot even put into words how tiring it can be sometimes but I completely accept that it's a job I choose to do.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:14 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE View Post
I do not disagree with you - however you are not taking jetlag into account. Oddly enough, I found it worse on East Coast than further afield. I am not making excuses for shody service but sometimes sleep can be evasive. I do not have to tell you that you can be awake at times when you should be asleep and then it can hit you like a sledgehammer. From LHR, this should not be an issue but I note that JFK has been mentioned and I wondered if they were on the last leg of a B2B (I'm out of it now and things may be different.

I mention this just to try and point out something that one could easily overlook. Having rest periods and being able to get sleep are not the same thing. This does not excuse lacadical take-it-or leave-it service.
Would you expect any other profession to perform badly because they work unsociable hours? Or your loved ones to be grumpy or abusive? Air crew aren't special snowflakes. If they can't hack it, it's simply not the right job for them. Lots of people find they can't work shifts; there's no shame in it, some people just can't hack it.

If a CSD sees they have crew members who can't hack it, surely they need to have a quiet word in someone's ear?
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:27 pm
  #37  
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As I said up thread MFCC it just goes to show that MF along with the other fleets are inconsistent.
I think I must be unusual in that I believe that I give 100% on all flights at all times of the day or night, it maybe because we get enough rest between flights on my fleet and I sleep well or that I am just exceptional?
I have always been the same, as soon as I put on my uniform I am on it, I see many of my colleagues not being as consistent which I understand can happen but I will jump on anyone that is rude or not pulling their wait.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:58 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
PUCCI ... I spent many (8?) years doing odd shift patterns at h24 ATC Units. Morning/Evening, then Afternoon/Night, a Sleep day [starting at 0800!] and then repeat ... followed by Sleep + 2 days off for an 8-day week.

We ATCOs always delivered the 100% safe and efficient service to aircrew that was expected, as do ATCOs today. OK, no jet-lag, but 3 hours on chair cushions on the crew room floor during a night shift wasn't much of a bonus either!!

Just saying.
I donít wish to rain on your parade T8191, but we no longer do those shift patterns for a reason. Humans are very poor at recognising fatigue in themselves, and these were fatigue inducing shift cycles. People think they are providing a great service, and afterwards are surprised at the decisions they made. My point? Itísnever quite as simple as ďwe copedĒ.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Can I help you View Post
As I said up thread MFCC it just goes to show that MF along with the other fleets are inconsistent.
I think I must be unusual in that I believe that I give 100% on all flights at all times of the day or night, it maybe because we get enough rest between flights on my fleet and I sleep well or that I am just exceptional?
I have always been the same, as soon as I put on my uniform I am on it, I see many of my colleagues not being as consistent which I understand can happen but I will jump on anyone that is rude or not pulling their wait.
I completely agree with you CIHY, and donít get me wrong I try to be Ďon ití 100% of the time and I genuinely think that the vast vast majority of my colleagues on any fleet are the same. I was simply trying to add a little perspective as to what our bodies contend with which I think is relatively unique even in the context of shift work generally.
I also try and remember that at the end of the day weíre all human and, no matter how hard I try on every sector Iím just not going to be as Ďon formí on a 10 hour night flight home from Vegas on Day 7 as I would be on Day 1 for my one out to Manchester!
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Old Feb 8, 19, 2:39 pm
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And that’s why I said that on my fleet we get enough time off but still some find it difficult.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 2:51 pm
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Originally Posted by Can I help you View Post
And thatís why I said that on my fleet we get enough time off but still some find it difficult.
Maybe I should come over to WW on secondment .
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Old Feb 8, 19, 2:55 pm
  #42  
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I would like that as I’m sure you are superb but we both know that isn’t going to happen, well at least in my time with BA.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 3:02 pm
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And at the risk of going off topic, I think this is a very good illustration of why the service routines, particularly in CW, should be adjusted to what is achieveable in the best interests of all concerned, rather than what some random middle-management-cum-marketing type thinks it should be. Swift easy service = contented passengers and crew, unnecessary complications serve no-ones’ interests.

MFCC - keep up the good work (and if you’ve a JNB on Monday I promise to be understanding).
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Last edited by BA235; Feb 8, 19 at 3:24 pm
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Old Feb 8, 19, 3:14 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE View Post
I do not disagree with you - however you are not taking jetlag into account. Oddly enough, I found it worse on East Coast than further afield. I am not making excuses for shody service but sometimes sleep can be evasive. I do not have to tell you that you can be awake at times when you should be asleep and then it can hit you like a sledgehammer. From LHR, this should not be an issue but I note that JFK has been mentioned and I wondered if they were on the last leg of a B2B (I'm out of it now and things may be different.

I mention this just to try and point out something that one could easily overlook. Having rest periods and being able to get sleep are not the same thing. This does not excuse lacadical take-it-or leave-it service.
Glad you agree. Almmost all Intercontinental flights from mid esat, far east, Indian subcontinent take off at awful hours after midnight. We do not see these crews being so uncaring. I understand jet lag plays havoc with sleep patterns, but them are the breaks. All jobs (most !) have some quirks. If you accept it willfully then you must provide the services agreed upon. ( I speak from experience several such flights and a job from midnight to 8 AM many moons ago.)
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Old Feb 8, 19, 3:16 pm
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Originally Posted by stevie View Post
BA management are hardly going to admit their introduction of MF crew on lower wages and worse conditions are negatively impacting service levels....
On one of my MF F flights I had to show the young man where 2F was as he was trying to put me into the middle aisle. Then when I got there somebody was in my seat having being invited to sit there by the crew.
The whole flight the crew reminded me of secondary school interns - young and full of enthusiasm but not a clue.
That was my last F flight paid for by cash, 3 years ago. I didn't waste my time complaining to BA, I simply chose another airline and will not return to paid F for many moons.
But, they are there primarily for your safety...yeah right!! 🤔🙄..thinking with this post who will be helping who out the exits?
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