BA serves drunk pax until comatose, refuses to remove him from emergency exit
Feb 5, 2019, 7:13 pm
#61
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I was aware that is what the term couple meant 🙄
so £20 worth each, which equates to 3.2 drinks, assuming 50 ml measures 6.2 units, 5 hour flight at standard conservative estimate metabolism of 1 unit per hour so effectively a third of a glass of Stella more intoxicated than when they boarded.
i believe you described the man as ‘an elderly gentlemen’ and an ‘old boy’, it is unsurprising that others got the impression that he was old.
In any case, would you agree that it is actually difficult to assess how drunk somebody actually is, we have a game in the Emergency Department whereby someone ‘s alcohol level is guessed, often incorrectly.
You raised a concern, it sounds like the CC acted upon it, asked for advice from the CSM who told them to wake the individual and ask if he still felt able to use the emergency exit, which they did, noting your comment that the travel companion answered for him, nethertheless you assessed from your seat behind him, no doubt secured with your seatbelt secured, better than the CC did in front of him.
meanwhile my concern remains that the other half of the couple was fully awake and conversant with the CC yet the one who had fallen over was in your words ‘Caumatosed’. Many more have died from people assuming they were drunk when actually they have a significant bead injury that any risk being blamed for the concern uothread.
The risk of drunk pax in exit rows has been discussed many times before on these threads, and some additional points can be see by reviewing those threads, in quite surprised the ‘if there was a real likelihood or indeed risk of using a window exit, they wouldn’t rely passengers to do it yet.
meanwhile those who argue that despite the tiny risk, all risks add up, I would urge them to consider the rrsks of other accepted circumstances onboard, perhaps they would argue to remove the ability to take hand-luggage onboard (far more likely to cause significant injury), or that we should start having 4 point harnesses in all seats rather than a lap belt.
One must balance levels kf risk and that is why professionals are emplpyed tk balance these things, if you want to contact the CAA by all means do, but I reiterate I doubt anything will happen accept further frustration on your part.
Feb 6, 2019, 5:30 am
#62
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I'm still rather hoping our comatose old boy will spark up, reveal himself a much-loved FT contributor, and so resurrect the giddy pleasure of the classic Flounge printer exchange.
Feb 6, 2019, 8:06 am
#63
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Feb 6, 2019, 8:13 am
#64
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It's not a case of claiming you know more than a professional, it's questioning their judgement in the context of your experience which may be greater than theirs.
Feb 6, 2019, 9:36 am
#65
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The whole idea that as ba are professionals one should just shut up when thinking that one of their staff got a situation wrong strikes me as very odd and tantamount to claiming that the CAA is superfluous in the first place or some airlines should be exempt from its control as a matter of principle.
you see something you think is wrong, you mention it to the crew, they answer in any way they see fit. If you feel they are still wrong, you just communicate your concerns to the institution in charge of ensuring the existing rules are respected. That institution then decides, not you, not the airline.
I dare say this is the same in pretty much any job in the world. We are all professionals, sometimes people believe we got a process or decision wrong and most of us have existing arbitration institutions which can confirm the validity of our process or decision or not. That doesn’t mean the other person is claiming to know our job better than us, just that with responsibility comes oversight. By and large, that is a good and sensible thing.
Feb 6, 2019, 9:50 am
#66
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Then again Flyertalkers do tend to notice 'stuff' a lot more than the general public. That's why we see a lot of topics on here which I suspect the vast majority of BA passengers couldn't care less about.
Feb 6, 2019, 9:59 am
#68
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Feb 6, 2019, 12:58 pm
#70
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The whole idea that as ba are professionals one should just shut up when thinking that one of their staff got a situation wrong strikes me as very odd and tantamount to claiming that the CAA is superfluous in the first place or some airlines should be exempt from its control as a matter of principle.
you see something you think is wrong, you mention it to the crew, they answer in any way they see fit. If you feel they are still wrong, you just communicate your concerns to the institution in charge of ensuring the existing rules are respected. That institution then decides, not you, not the airline.
It would be most unfair to denigrate the conscientious and efficient approach to their duties taken by so many good CC, in so many daily onboard situations. They are there - as those PA announcements so rightly remind us - primarily for our safety.
Any notion, however, that a training period lasting a matter of a few weeks somehow imbues cabin crew with a level of knowledge, perception, and ‘professional’ judgement so infallible that it should never be doubted, disbelieved, or challenged - whatever the circumstances - strikes me as wholly irrational.
We all entrust our lives to flight deck crew every time we take to their skies. With remarkably few exceptions, they operate the aircraft to the highest possible standards. And that is precisely why we feel so very safe in their hands. But we also know that air accident specialist investigators have found pilot error to be the cause of many unpleasant incidents. Few passengers have the necessary technical expertise and understanding to question an aircraft commander. But even as a professional he may not make the right call every single time.
And of course different scenarios apply where other roles are concerned. When a member of cabin crew decides that something is “not an issue” it does not automatically follow that we should happily accept their word with blind faith if - as is the case of the OP’s experience related in detail here - all our own instincts might be telling us that something is just not right.
If a particular police or security officer chose to walk past an item of unattended baggage at an airport, does that mean it poses no risk ? Or might a member of the public, in seeing the same item, be justified in deeming it worthy of reporting so as to prompt further investigation and / or removal ?
There are always lessons to be learnt.
Feb 6, 2019, 2:14 pm
#71
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Right. But if the police officer investigated it and satisfied themselves that it was ok, then are you still going to question their judgement and tell them they’re wrong? And then complain about it anonymously on an Internet forum.
Feb 6, 2019, 2:36 pm
#72
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The CC apparently asked the passenger involved, repeatedly, whether he was fit to assist if required. In reality his condition was such that he wasn’t even fit to utter a word in response, but the CC were satisfied with an assurance given on his behalf - and then walked away. The fact that they were wearing a uniform and were thus exercising ‘professional’ judgement would - in those precise circumstances - do nothing to reassure me from a safety perspective. But perhaps others would be happy.
Feb 6, 2019, 3:48 pm
#73
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Please do tell how you know that the CC’s investigation was actually cursory or “ineffective” as you claim? All we know is that the OP dosagreee with their decision
Feb 6, 2019, 4:53 pm
#74
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It would be an interesting experiment to not allow alcohol to be had/offered in the lounge or on board if you are in the exit row.
What proportion of people who are entitled to free exit row seating would no longer place themselves there?
What proportion of people who are entitled to free exit row seating would no longer place themselves there?
Feb 6, 2019, 5:01 pm
#75
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Even if the OP was 100% factual and the passenger was drunk, probably it would be higher risk to have the flight crew go around or hold off landing whilst CC reshuffled people. So in a sense the decision to keep the man there was the right one.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
The CSM reiterated that passengers should pay attention and turned the volume up significantly on the E190 and restarted the demonstration.
Assuming there was another Hudson River or Kegworth situation or indeed the BA777 thst crashed on the outskirts of Heathrow, imagine the headline if survivors said they couldn’t get to the closest exit because of a passenger that was comatose/incapable in the emergency exit row? As sure as night follows day pretty sure thst rules on alcohol served in flight or at airports in the country that the airline is from will have a review of rules regarding alcohol.