BA serves drunk pax until comatose, refuses to remove him from emergency exit
#46
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I really don't see anything wrong with questioning the judgement of the crew when you consider they are behaving in a way that is unsafe. I have done it in the course of the last 12 months over an issue in the emergency exit row and was deemed to be correct in doing it. It's all very well staying silent until something goes wrong.
#47
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I'm going to save my sermon until I hear the other side of the story... :-)
#48
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Many accidents investigated after they have occurred reveal a series of seemingly minor unrelated events allowing an accident to slip through; I think investigators refer to this as the Swiss Cheese Model. This is recognised widely in aviation and I would be very surprised if BA did not welcome your account: similar circumstances in the future could be a contributing factor to a catastrophic event and the safety culture in any part of the aviation industry operates in a very mature and open way.
#49
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i wear my noise cancelling headphones during the safety demonstration; it makes it easier to hear it.
#50
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If we accept the premise that passengers in an exit row are "auxiliary crew" in case of an emergency where they can open an exit door in place of a crew member doing it, I was thinking that there probably should be a policy that those passengers should also remain sober. Seems reasonable to me that the crew must remain sober, why not those who would be acting for the crew in an emergency?
One of the requirements on BA.com is: "You must be willing and able to assist in the unlikely event of an emergency evacuation." Would a person who has had too much alcohol meet the "able" requirement? I know some handle alcohol differently than others, but in the event of an emergency that isn't the time to find out if the passenger is now too drunk to understand instructions and act on them rapidly.
One of the requirements on BA.com is: "You must be willing and able to assist in the unlikely event of an emergency evacuation." Would a person who has had too much alcohol meet the "able" requirement? I know some handle alcohol differently than others, but in the event of an emergency that isn't the time to find out if the passenger is now too drunk to understand instructions and act on them rapidly.
#51
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Which is why it is appropriate to report the incident to both BA and the CAA. OP clearly disagrees with the crew determination and thus it is appropriate for an investigation to be undertaken.
As noted, if nothing else, this sensitizes staff to the knowledge that they are watched.
As noted, if nothing else, this sensitizes staff to the knowledge that they are watched.
Why is it appropriate that an investigation to be undertaken just because they disagree with the crew determination? If I think the pilot landed rather firmly, should I ask for an investigation because I think it should have been a soft landing?
#52
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Even if the OP was 100% factual and the passenger was drunk, probably it would be higher risk to have the flight crew go around or hold off landing whilst CC reshuffled people. So in a sense the decision to keep the man there was the right one.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
#53
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I'd recommend being as objective and calm as possible, expressing it as safety concerns rather than complaints. However, I think you also need to cover the point that a drunk guy shouldn't have been drunk on an aeroplane in the first place, as well as not being allowed to be in the exit row.
If you genuinely feel that a safe evacuation in the event of an emergency landing would have been compromised, you should report it to the CAA. You have every right to question the CSD's judgement on this. A witness would help- I would have had a quiet word and exchange details with the person seated next to him who told him off for leaning against them. Then you would have a witness.
I don't know about the copy to the CAA, but if this is raised with BA's safety department, from previous experience of mine there is a good chance that it will be heeded. When I raised a cabin safety issue with BA (which was of a generic kind rather than an incident on a specific flight) I got a impressively considered and detailed response from the head of the department, which touched on the many difficult policy and practical issues that pulled in different directions on that, showing that BA was aware of the problem but also of the human factors limitations of what could reasonably be done in relation to it. It would not have satisfied a "hang 'em and flog 'em" complainant, but I thought that it was a reassuring insight into the real work behind BA's safety culture.
This sort of story, which sadly does come up fairly often (e.g. Ryanair flight diverts due to drunk and rowdy passengers) concerns me because inevitably it'll result in the minority who cannot handle their alcohol or know when to stop ruining things for the rest of us. There have already been rumblings about banning or limiting alcohol availability in airports, and it wouldn't be that much of a leap before an airline either banned alcohol altogether or brought in a 1-2 drink limit. An increasing number of trains in Germany are now alcohol-free due to the actions of certain fuelled-up football fans, and of course we have dry trains in this country too (Scotrail after 21:00, Aberdeen - King's Cross on oil rig changeover day etc). One of life's great pleasures is sitting in a train or plane with a beer in hand watching the world go by, and I fear eventually the drunken idiots will have this pleasure removed from us permanently.
Even if the OP was 100% factual and the passenger was drunk, probably it would be higher risk to have the flight crew go around or hold off landing whilst CC reshuffled people. So in a sense the decision to keep the man there was the right one.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
So a passenger was drunk in the middle seat on an emergency exit row? So what? How many times were BA aircraft evacuated via overwing exits in the last ten years? Once or twice?
As a f/a on a chinese Airline once briefed me when I pointed out that they forgot to play the safety video: "we crash, you die".
People need to relax a bit.
Last edited by Passmethesickbag; Feb 5, 2019 at 3:07 pm
#54
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Everything is unnecessary, right up to the point that it becomes necessary. Frankly, in this circumstance (assuming the OP is accurate) the crew need a rather large kick up the backside.
#55
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I must admit I'm curious though, does the crew earn a commission from onboard sales?
#57
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#58
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how did they make at least a pound? Did the customer spend £40+? That is a lot more drinks that you suggested in your OP.
#59
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#60
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so £20 worth each, which equates to 3.2 drinks, assuming 50 ml measures 6.2 units, 5 hour flight at standard conservative estimate metabolism of 1 unit per hour so effectively a third of a glass of Stella more intoxicated than when they boarded.
Originally Posted by Passmethesickbag
"Very" got added by others, not by me. He was older than me; I was older than his son.
In any case, would you agree that it is actually difficult to assess how drunk somebody actually is, we have a game in the Emergency Department whereby someone ‘s alcohol level is guessed, often incorrectly.
You raised a concern, it sounds like the CC acted upon it, asked for advice from the CSM who told them to wake the individual and ask if he still felt able to use the emergency exit, which they did, noting your comment that the travel companion answered for him, nethertheless you assessed from your seat behind him, no doubt secured with your seatbelt secured, better than the CC did in front of him.
meanwhile my concern remains that the other half of the couple was fully awake and conversant with the CC yet the one who had fallen over was in your words ‘Caumatosed’. Many more have died from people assuming they were drunk when actually they have a significant bead injury that any risk being blamed for the concern uothread.
The risk of drunk pax in exit rows has been discussed many times before on these threads, and some additional points can be see by reviewing those threads, in quite surprised the ‘if there was a real likelihood or indeed risk of using a window exit, they wouldn’t rely passengers to do it yet.
Meanwhile those who argue that despite the tiny risk, all risks add up, I would urge them to consider the rrsks of other accepted circumstances onboard, perhaps they would argue to remove the ability to take hand-luggage onboard (far more likely to cause significant injury), or that we should start having 4 point harnesses in all seats rather than a lap belt.
One must balances levels of risk and that is why professionals are emplpyed tk balance these things, if you want to contact the CAA by all means do, but I reiterate I doubt anything will happen accept further frustration on your part.
Last edited by navylad; Feb 6, 2019 at 12:26 pm