Can BA learn anything from QR?
Feb 4, 2019, 12:16 pm
#76
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dundee
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Nope.
Nope.
Don't own any other theirs.
Actually, have a look here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ion_by_country - and decide where not to spend your money or partake of their hospitality.
Hmmm.... a holiday in Bognor anyone?
Hmmm.... a holiday in Bognor anyone?
Choosing to fly east and not to fly via the ME is an easy choice to make. Maybe more expensive, or less "comfortable", but still an easy one.
Feb 4, 2019, 12:19 pm
#77
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Anyone here who is saying they won't fly with QR due to ME human rights issues might want to check if they have a Chinese-made iPhone (or many other Chinese products) in their possession. Where their clothes are made - Pakistan? India? Another sub continent sweat-shop? Did you vote for a government that deals in arms sales to Saudi Arabia? Have you ever flown Ryan Air? How's that Beko appliance going - you know, the one made in Turkey?
Actually, have a look here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ion_by_country - and decide where not to spend your money or partake of their hospitality.
Hmmm.... a holiday in Bognor anyone?
Actually, have a look here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ion_by_country - and decide where not to spend your money or partake of their hospitality.
Hmmm.... a holiday in Bognor anyone?
Feb 4, 2019, 12:59 pm
#79
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
Why?
An oft thrown around number for MF (as we all know the only way to now get a job with BA) is ca. £20k per annum. That’s is the equivalent of £17k post tax. Your page links to a figure which gives ca. £15.6k post tax pay in DOH (given it is all non-taxed). In addition apparently you get shared accommodation. Let’s call that the equivalent of £500/month around London. That’s equivalent to £6k net pay/£7k gross roughly. So QR apparently pays its entry cabin crew better than IAG.
Yes, someone will now say they’re under constant supervision but if all media is to be believed, apparently BA doesn’t even hire crew who can’t apply make-up correctly...
An oft thrown around number for MF (as we all know the only way to now get a job with BA) is ca. £20k per annum. That’s is the equivalent of £17k post tax. Your page links to a figure which gives ca. £15.6k post tax pay in DOH (given it is all non-taxed). In addition apparently you get shared accommodation. Let’s call that the equivalent of £500/month around London. That’s equivalent to £6k net pay/£7k gross roughly. So QR apparently pays its entry cabin crew better than IAG.
Yes, someone will now say they’re under constant supervision but if all media is to be believed, apparently BA doesn’t even hire crew who can’t apply make-up correctly...
Your valuation for the cost of shared accommodation in DOHA that they are forced to live in is way off and as I understand it most choose to live out of the provided ‘accomodation’ where if you are under grade 3 you have to share not only the flat but the bedroom itself.
So what could BA learn? Move to a state that won’t make your employees pay tax.
I also read a review where a former employee revealed how “hard core disciplined organisation” QR are. I’d rather BA didn’t learn that lesson and stick to their just culture mentra.
Last edited by navylad; Feb 4, 2019 at 1:12 pm
Feb 4, 2019, 1:49 pm
#80
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London, NYC, LCA
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 169
As someone who flew QR extensively for a number of years while based in DOH and still use fairly regularly I believe alot of the BA/QR comparisons are fairly hyperbolic. What many posters fail to recognize is that QR do not operate on the same commercial terms and constraints other true commercial airlines like BA/AA etc have to. i was gold/platinum on QR for a number of years but god forbid you had irrops customer service on the ground/off the aircraft was non existent and fairly useless. yes BA lacks the bells and whistles of QR service/product but give me a good BA crew over a robotic/apprehensive QR crew any day!
Feb 4, 2019, 1:49 pm
#81
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,644
BA would claim significantly higher pay that your figures, but nonetheless even with your lower figure, that’s a £1.4k saving per CC across the whole fleet, or 8.3%, not to mention whilst in training and probabyionarybperood the earn as little as £7.7k.
Your valuation for the cost of shared accommodation in DOHA that they are forced to live in is way off and as I understand it most choose to live out of the provided ‘accomodation’ where if you are under grade 3 you have to share not only the flat but the bedroom itself.
So what could BA learn? Move to a state that won’t make your employees pay tax.
I also read a review where a former employee revealed how “hard core disciplined organisation” QR are. I’d rather BA didn’t learn that lesson and stick to their just culture mentra.
Public transport around affordable areas around Heathrow is equally poor, and if anyone would actually like to live centrally in London that’s actually unaffordable, but sure, BA is a good and benevolent company who treats all its staff with dignity and respect...
IAG, like all other European airlines have done its best to water down labour rights, so yes, I am fairly sure BA would do whatever it could in order to reduce its payroll, including relocation to a much lower tax domicile if possible.
Feb 4, 2019, 2:05 pm
#82
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Except you said where I’d work if I was cabin crew and QR provides a better financial package when looking at this from a net basis. And whilst you can say BA argue the pay is higher than £20k, the cabin crew unions claim the pay is lower, but let’s not argue over semantics. So on a net basis, QR crew is probably better paid.
Public transport around affordable areas around Heathrow is equally poor, and if anyone would actually like to live centrally in London that’s actually unaffordable, but sure, BA is a good and benevolent company who treats all its staff with dignity and respect...
IAG, like all other European airlines have done its best to water down labour rights, so yes, I am fairly sure BA would do whatever it could in order to reduce its payroll, including relocation to a much lower tax domicile if possible.
Public transport around affordable areas around Heathrow is equally poor, and if anyone would actually like to live centrally in London that’s actually unaffordable, but sure, BA is a good and benevolent company who treats all its staff with dignity and respect...
IAG, like all other European airlines have done its best to water down labour rights, so yes, I am fairly sure BA would do whatever it could in order to reduce its payroll, including relocation to a much lower tax domicile if possible.
And take for example this review ‘Qatar Airways treats employees like garbage, they have a "report and get reported" culture that is insane. All minor issues being escalated unnecessarily. I have enjoyed my time there working as cabin crew, wages were nice, however I believe their intrusion on our personal lives are illegal.’
now yes Ba’s employee relations haven’t been perfect but from the sounds of it, for definite I’d rather work at BA rather than QR, YVMV.
Feb 4, 2019, 2:34 pm
#83
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: OSL
Posts: 2,644
except they don’t pay them more that’s the point. 🙄
And take for example this review ‘Qatar Airways treats employees like garbage, they have a "report and get reported" culture that is insane. All minor issues being escalated unnecessarily. I have enjoyed my time there working as cabin crew, wages were nice, however I believe their intrusion on our personal lives are illegal.’
now yes Ba’s employee relations haven’t been perfect but from the sounds of it, for definite I’d rather work at BA rather than QR, YVMV.
No they probably don’t pay them more, but differences aren’t actually all that great, eg the internet will also tell you they receive healthcare, BA doesn’t offer that. £4K in pay difference but your original source also shows a much quicker salary progression than BA. You can’t simply ignore benefits in kind such as housing because it fits your argument.
Anyway, I’ll check out of this as it is straying.
Feb 4, 2019, 2:44 pm
#84
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except they don’t pay them more that’s the point. 🙄
And take for example this review ‘Qatar Airways treats employees like garbage, they have a "report and get reported" culture that is insane. All minor issues being escalated unnecessarily. I have enjoyed my time there working as cabin crew, wages were nice, however I believe their intrusion on our personal lives are illegal.’
now yes Ba’s employee relations haven’t been perfect but from the sounds of it, for definite I’d rather work at BA rather than QR, YVMV.
You've quoted a single, clearly disgruntled, ex-employee of the airline. You wouldn't have to look beyond this forum find similar grade comments from BA staff.
Feb 4, 2019, 3:08 pm
#85
Join Date: Feb 2010
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[QUOTE=Flexible preferences;30733876]It could be that 'familiarity breeds contempt' plays a part here with the positive differences on QR being so noticeable to a frequent BA traveller. Frequent travellers on QR above have less rose-tinted-glasses regarding their experience. That said, some nice touches on QR - I like the little battery candles, but I'm not sure I'd want to cough up a higher fare for touches like this.
/QUOTE]
That "familiarity......" [thing is a novel way to dismiss the positives about a competitor who excels in many aspects. I am not sure what you mean by coughing up a higher fare.....I find QR as good or competitive in that area. Even when one wants to travel on an award ticket BA' "fees" are about 9 times more. So whenever I can I try to fly QR or even EY.
/QUOTE]
That "familiarity......" [thing is a novel way to dismiss the positives about a competitor who excels in many aspects. I am not sure what you mean by coughing up a higher fare.....I find QR as good or competitive in that area. Even when one wants to travel on an award ticket BA' "fees" are about 9 times more. So whenever I can I try to fly QR or even EY.
Feb 4, 2019, 3:19 pm
#86
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
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I can’t take a in-post quote without a source from one person particularly seriously. All companies have employees who like it and hate it...
No they probably don’t pay them more, but differences aren’t actually all that great, eg the internet will also tell you they receive healthcare, BA doesn’t offer that. £4K in pay difference but your original source also shows a much quicker salary progression than BA. You can’t simply ignore benefits in kind such as housing because it fits your argument.
Anyway, I’ll check out of this as it is straying.
No they probably don’t pay them more, but differences aren’t actually all that great, eg the internet will also tell you they receive healthcare, BA doesn’t offer that. £4K in pay difference but your original source also shows a much quicker salary progression than BA. You can’t simply ignore benefits in kind such as housing because it fits your argument.
Anyway, I’ll check out of this as it is straying.
i would contest that there is fast progression or earnings higher up the ladder and would request where you are showing evidence of this?
To return tk my original point,a contributing factor to the fact that QR can have more crew guiding people to their seats is that the crew cost the airline less. They don’t have to find the tax bill of the CC, they don’t find the medical insurance you talk of (this is funded by the state similar to that funded by our state too- which many a person from Qatar comes across and uses).
i also dont discount the accomodation provided, but to say it was worth £500 pcm when you are required to share a bedroom is just not realisitic in estimating its value.
The reality is that BA can learn a few things from QR of course, and there are many suggestions up thread and others in the numerous other QRvs BA threads on this forum, but there are also some things that QR could learn from BA IMHO.
Feb 4, 2019, 11:54 pm
#87
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Tokyo
Programs: BA Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 194
The culture in the whole company is not great. Everyone is in fear of losing their job and as such people will quickly stab you in the back for their own survival. You can be got rid either without reason or for the most petty of reasons. A large number of people leave QR after being fired and it is common practice. If I had someone apply for a job who had been fired from QR after one year it would not make me think less of them. If I had a CV in front of me from someone working there for 10 years, I would question their attitude to people management and the ability to work effectively as a team.
I worked in the head office. I am not a disgruntled employee. I left after one year of my own accord. I enjoyed my time there but sadly the atmosphere is like a 1960's boarding school with a very very strict headmaster.
Feb 5, 2019, 3:37 am
#88
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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Feb 5, 2019, 4:03 am
#89
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Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Not sure where this obsession with shared bedrooms comes from. For the most part the Doha set up is on the lines of our university halls of residence, offering independent accommodation units. They aren't in the best area of Doha, and its true the rules attached to residence are great deal stricter and wider ranging than any university would seek to impose...
But there you are: the crews are not indentured labourers. They have leapt at an opportunity they many are unlikely to find in their home countries. They get trained in skills they can exploit elsewhere, they are part of a young multi-national team, travel widely, are paid well and have extremely low living expenses.
This other meme of robotic is silly. I've met confident young women and young men taking care of the business-class and economy-class cabins of QR aircraft. Among them are skill-sets and and a range of languages which impress. It's true they are required to follow airline protocols and procedures closely. Perhaps putting place settings in precisely the right position comes across as robotic, but they cope well with complications including those of dine on demand.
But back to the topic of what BA could learn. The answer is not much, in practical terms. The two airlines operate within very different environments, with wildly different constraints on their operations. Both exploit the hand they were dealt as best they can. Both can make the odd bonkers decision, but by and large they get on with it and deliver two quite different products, both successful in their own way.
My BA flight home from Helsinki with a J-cabin stretching back over Lord knows how many rows clearly over-tasked the delightful two/three-crew members looking after us. Perhaps a successful approach to marketing business-class warrants higher crew numbers as a leaf from QR's hymn-sheet suggests - but our hard working crew managed it with good humour. I'd like to think they are rewarded as well as their colleagues over at QR.
Feb 5, 2019, 4:12 am
#90
Moderator: Qatar Airways
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I sit in a few QR crew WhatsApp groups, and of the 200 or so staff who are part of them, they're all full of energy.
They travel the world, experience new adventures, and there is a strong sense of camaraderie within. Many have large followings on social media, and while that is not a barometer of happiness or enjoyment, it shows that they're pleased with what they do.
Are there areas that QR could improve? Yes, however turning up for Standby and being sent home after 9 hours, doesn't look like much fun for the BA crew I know either.
M
They travel the world, experience new adventures, and there is a strong sense of camaraderie within. Many have large followings on social media, and while that is not a barometer of happiness or enjoyment, it shows that they're pleased with what they do.
Are there areas that QR could improve? Yes, however turning up for Standby and being sent home after 9 hours, doesn't look like much fun for the BA crew I know either.
M