Can BA learn anything from QR?
Feb 3, 2019, 10:17 am
#31
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Can BA learn anything from QR?
Yes, reincorporate in a country with a native population of just over 300,000, the third-highest hydrocarbon reserves in the world, a 2018 estimated GDP (PPP) of $357 billion (thanks Wikipedia) and thus a GDP (PPP) / person well north of $125,000***, effectively number one in the world.
Then get your government to throw oodles of cash at your national airline and that will allow the airline to satisfy the needs, demands and dreams of every single FT member. Maybe.
@:-)
*** That's based on the total population of 2.5 million including expats - although I'm pretty sure the reems of imported workers building football stadia are probably not benefitting much from that $125k!
Rant over.
Yes, reincorporate in a country with a native population of just over 300,000, the third-highest hydrocarbon reserves in the world, a 2018 estimated GDP (PPP) of $357 billion (thanks Wikipedia) and thus a GDP (PPP) / person well north of $125,000***, effectively number one in the world.
Then get your government to throw oodles of cash at your national airline and that will allow the airline to satisfy the needs, demands and dreams of every single FT member. Maybe.
@:-)
*** That's based on the total population of 2.5 million including expats - although I'm pretty sure the reems of imported workers building football stadia are probably not benefitting much from that $125k!
Rant over.
Feb 3, 2019, 10:56 am
#33
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 489
QR have the luxury of being based in Qatar and having access to a cheap workforce with arguably questionable rights. Equally not having to answer to shareholders with bottom line profitability not being as important to Qatar as it is to IAG helps along the way.
One benefit I see is that if every aircraft touches Doha, then presumably they have access to cheap labour and can therefore have higher and more frequent cleaning standards. If every airline in London did this, then maybe BA would do the same, but it only competes with Qatar going East, and in reality it doesn't compete at all as they are part of a joint business.
A lot of people who say they'll never fly BA again after flying on Qatar are internalising a trade-off - ultimately in most cases they are turning a direct routing into a 1-stop routing, which is fine for some but it is a trade-off they are making (i know I'm looking at this from a very London centric point-of-view so don't lynch me!)
One benefit I see is that if every aircraft touches Doha, then presumably they have access to cheap labour and can therefore have higher and more frequent cleaning standards. If every airline in London did this, then maybe BA would do the same, but it only competes with Qatar going East, and in reality it doesn't compete at all as they are part of a joint business.
A lot of people who say they'll never fly BA again after flying on Qatar are internalising a trade-off - ultimately in most cases they are turning a direct routing into a 1-stop routing, which is fine for some but it is a trade-off they are making (i know I'm looking at this from a very London centric point-of-view so don't lynch me!)
Feb 3, 2019, 11:44 am
#34
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A lot of people who say they'll never fly BA again after flying on Qatar are internalising a trade-off - ultimately in most cases they are turning a direct routing into a 1-stop routing, which is fine for some but it is a trade-off they are making (i know I'm looking at this from a very London centric point-of-view so don't lynch me!)
Last edited by rosswill; Feb 3, 2019 at 11:56 am
Feb 3, 2019, 12:05 pm
#35
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Feb 3, 2019, 12:13 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
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QR's CEO once faced this issue when asked live on CNN and this was his response
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5wVBUDgrrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5wVBUDgrrE
a friend worked for them (back office) and while he really enjoyed the work, there were a load of very strict rules and things you most certainly were not allowed to say, or at least shouldn’t say if you values your job
Feb 3, 2019, 12:13 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,747
Interesting direction this thread has moved. Although I sympathise with the comments about Qatar's cheaper workforce and whether their rights are as strongly upheld as crew from 'western' countries, I fail to see how QR's possible advantage in this is any excuse for BA (or many other airlines) to be unable to at least offer similar quality food, dine-on-demand, cleaner toilets and a superior hard product. Perhaps it's a fair comment that BA would find it hard to match the number of CC and keep costs down but in so many other areas they could match QR if they wanted. It's not as if BA's fares are really any cheaper than QR.
Feb 3, 2019, 12:17 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,104
I fail to see the difference between boycotting an airline because their employee and general rights are allegedly not up to scratch, and the majority of those who are critical of QR buying the petrol refined from oil from these regions, wear designer clothes stitched together by kids in an Asian sweat shop and purchase domestic goods from the likes of China who are hardly squeaky clean with respect to human rights.
So long as the price is right, or we need a specific item, then many of us seem to climb down from the moral high ground when it suits.
Feb 3, 2019, 12:26 pm
#39
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Interesting direction this thread has moved. Although I sympathise with the comments about Qatar's cheaper workforce and whether their rights are as strongly upheld as crew from 'western' countries, I fail to see how QR's possible advantage in this is any excuse for BA (or many other airlines) to be unable to at least offer similar quality food, dine-on-demand, cleaner toilets and a superior hard product. Perhaps it's a fair comment that BA would find it hard to match the number of CC and keep costs down but in so many other areas they could match QR if they wanted. It's not as if BA's fares are really any cheaper than QR.
Feb 3, 2019, 12:33 pm
#40
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Posts: 6,394
If everyone based their travel habits on ethics - I would suggest there would be few destinations left to consider or national carriers to get you there !
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So long as the price is right, or we need a specific item, then many of us seem to climb down from the moral high ground when it suits.
.............................
So long as the price is right, or we need a specific item, then many of us seem to climb down from the moral high ground when it suits.
Some time ago, midway through another of the (many !) QR-related threads here, I clearly recall an FT-er who was very ‘committed’ to BA so to speak, and who came on to say that - because of perceived wrongs within Qatar as a country - their airline would not be seeing “a single penny” of his money.
And when I gently reminded him that, for every ticket he bought to fly his favoured BA, Qatar are happily taking 20% of the profit on such sales, he did, in all fairness, post again with a wry acceptance along the lines of “ah .... yes, true ..... you’ve got me there .....” (or words to that effect)
Feb 3, 2019, 12:37 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 489
Interesting direction this thread has moved. Although I sympathise with the comments about Qatar's cheaper workforce and whether their rights are as strongly upheld as crew from 'western' countries, I fail to see how QR's possible advantage in this is any excuse for BA (or many other airlines) to be unable to at least offer similar quality food, dine-on-demand, cleaner toilets and a superior hard product. Perhaps it's a fair comment that BA would find it hard to match the number of CC and keep costs down but in so many other areas they could match QR if they wanted. It's not as if BA's fares are really any cheaper than QR.
I also think that people forget that QR doesn't compete on many of BA's core markets, and they have a JV so as I previously said, they don't compete. I'm not saying that BA is way ahead of the competition on its other markets (i know it's not), but it's much closer.
And lastly, it's something that is often overlooked, but the number of J seats on a BA plane vs. other airlines is immense. Which other airlines have 14F and 86J seats on a single aircraft? It just shows the type of market BA serves, but ultimately you lose the feeling of exclusivity when you're sharing it with 85 other passengers.
Feb 3, 2019, 12:41 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2014
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Interesting direction this thread has moved. Although I sympathise with the comments about Qatar's cheaper workforce and whether their rights are as strongly upheld as crew from 'western' countries, I fail to see how QR's possible advantage in this is any excuse for BA (or many other airlines) to be unable to at least offer similar quality food, dine-on-demand, cleaner toilets and a superior hard product. Perhaps it's a fair comment that BA would find it hard to match the number of CC and keep costs down but in so many other areas they could match QR if they wanted. It's not as if BA's fares are really any cheaper than QR.
On QR and CX, you always gave someone coming to your seat and introducing him/herself to you. They thank you for being an Emerald OW member and tell you not to hesitate if you need something. On QR, they would ask me my meal choice from the menu. They will make sure you’ll have your furst choice even if you are the last one to be served. Menus are still printed for Y passengers in all airlines I travel with in longhaul Y (only BA doesn’t. And most of the times BA CC would ask you to chose between Chicken or Pasta without knowing exactly what the dishes are. ). In KL and AF, there are rounds of refreshing towels for Y passengers. KL have them warm. And let’s not talk about eye shades. They are in all airlines except BA. AF have introduced a set of eyshades with different patterns to collect. A nice small touch that lake you feel they care about Y passengers. DL and QR have great amenty kits with eyeshades, ear plugs and socks. DL gives you 2 snacks with your first drink before the main meal. AF’s headsets are real headsets. Cabins are clean on all airlines mentioned here, whereas BA’s are hit and miss. Obviously, all these airlines are more generous with their shorthaul Y offering. You always get something for free. AF have just introduced a new breakfast box on flights longer than 2h that include quality items such as a bread with jam, mango smoothy, almond milk with banana and cinnamon and some granola (picture below). Even when there is BoB, you get recognized for being a FF with other airlines. Cabin crews might be better in higher cabins but find BA crews average now in Y longhaul. In shorthaul there us no customer service at all.
So the list is long. And it does not necessarily have to do with QR being from an oil rich country.
Last edited by BA6948; Feb 3, 2019 at 12:52 pm
Feb 3, 2019, 12:44 pm
#43
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The moral dimension may be challenging to some. From our POV we are quite content to fly QR, but are 99.99% certain we will never visit a country in that region for various reasons.
Feb 3, 2019, 12:59 pm
#44
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Feb 3, 2019, 6:51 pm
#45
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Must say, my only J experience on QR I found the “soft product” quite cloying and unhelpful- escort to seat (pointless), bombarding me with 1000 questions about pre departure drinks while I was trying to stash my carry on (of course no help with that, not that I needed it), then I ordered a non alcoholic drink with y meal and had to be asked 3 times if I was aware it was non alcoholic and was that ok? Insufferable
ax ratioI gather that you haven't flown AA recently.
You didn't say what the rules are, but depending on the specific rules, is that really so different from other airlines?
