11˝-hour daytime flight in darkness
Feb 19, 2019, 11:29 am
#61
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
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Unless the you want to invest in a private jet, you just need to except this is one of the problems with public transport. It really is just like it or lump it, no point of getting upset over it.
Added to which 11 hours of darkness will not do you any harm at all, the stress of getting worked up over it is far more likely to harm your health.
Added to which 11 hours of darkness will not do you any harm at all, the stress of getting worked up over it is far more likely to harm your health.
Feb 19, 2019, 11:32 am
#62
Join Date: Oct 2014
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People may have asked me to close my blind
But nobody has ever forced me to sleep on a flightand sleeping in daylight hours may not beas uncommon or unnatural as some in this thread think it is.
Feb 19, 2019, 11:34 am
#63
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I've mentioned in a previous post that during a LHR-LAX 12:30pm flight, the windows on my 787 were locked on fully dark for between 1/2-2/3 of the flight.
Prior to that, the sun coming in from the A side was going straight through my divider that was up and also reflecting off the K side cabin wall. I did appreciate some dimming in that respect but not for the bulk of the flight.
Prior to that, the sun coming in from the A side was going straight through my divider that was up and also reflecting off the K side cabin wall. I did appreciate some dimming in that respect but not for the bulk of the flight.
Did you speak to the crew and ask them to unlock the window controls?
Feb 19, 2019, 12:47 pm
#64
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Every flight I take is an exercise in compromises to some extent. Usually two or three elements weigh enough that I accept the various downsides. Where I sit is a huge element, price and date are others. I will choose a different cabin / flight / carrier / routing purely on seating and its availability at the time of booking.
The OP stated the Club window seats were already taken at time of booking. Then why book Club? Why not book to travel in WT+ or look at another routing if window seats are so critical for the OP?
Day flights transatlantic westbound, I'll be sat somewhere ending in K and the window blind(s) will be open … though I'll partially close if a neighbour really needs.
The OP stated the Club window seats were already taken at time of booking. Then why book Club? Why not book to travel in WT+ or look at another routing if window seats are so critical for the OP?
Day flights transatlantic westbound, I'll be sat somewhere ending in K and the window blind(s) will be open … though I'll partially close if a neighbour really needs.
Feb 19, 2019, 12:53 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2013
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On the return flight three weeks later, I sat in seat 6K, where I discovered that the occupant of this seat has control not only of the three windows alongside this seat's space, but also of the orphaned window in front of the seat (behind the rear-facing passenger). The same will be true of the orphaned window in front of seat 6A. These two orphaned windows are communal windows, not alongside any seat or seat's space, and therefore I believe that British Airways should change these windows' configuration so that they are separately controlled and not under the control of passengers in seats 6A and 6K. This would ensure that there is always some natural daylight during daytime hours (by which I mean outside any hours of sleep necessitated by time differences etc), at least in the rear CW cabin.
At around 10:00 GMT when breakfast was being served, I undimmed the four windows over which I had control. Everyone was already awake and two of the other three passengers with control of windows quickly followed suit. I found that my IFE was perfectly visible even in direct sunlight. Therefore I don't accept the argument above that one passenger's IFE is a valid reason to deprive everyone else of daylight.
I believe that British Airways should limit the control that passengers in A and K seats on the 787 have over window dimming, preventing dimming by more than 50% during daytime and preventing undimming by more than 50% during hours of sleep. With the technology in place on the 787, there is no reason to replicate the legacy system of physical blinds whereby passengers next to the blinds have primary control over the amount of daylight received by all passengers in the cabin. Otherwise it's akin to a restaurant allowing diners next to the windows to close the curtains; the approach or policy need be no different on board an aircraft.
At around 10:00 GMT when breakfast was being served, I undimmed the four windows over which I had control. Everyone was already awake and two of the other three passengers with control of windows quickly followed suit. I found that my IFE was perfectly visible even in direct sunlight. Therefore I don't accept the argument above that one passenger's IFE is a valid reason to deprive everyone else of daylight.
I believe that British Airways should limit the control that passengers in A and K seats on the 787 have over window dimming, preventing dimming by more than 50% during daytime and preventing undimming by more than 50% during hours of sleep. With the technology in place on the 787, there is no reason to replicate the legacy system of physical blinds whereby passengers next to the blinds have primary control over the amount of daylight received by all passengers in the cabin. Otherwise it's akin to a restaurant allowing diners next to the windows to close the curtains; the approach or policy need be no different on board an aircraft.
Ah... just *which* 50% should be forced to sit next to a darkened window or next to a bright window (perhaps even with direct sunlight right in the face - something that some people can NOT deal with medically, or not for an extended time)?
Can I pay extra for a "choice"? If so, then how do they know how to allocate the others?
Is "darkened" better than "daylight" window?
And what if you have the misfortune to be seated next to one of the 50% who somehow won the "sunlight window" lottery?
Should they charge extra (or at least LABEL on reservations, right?) for seats "next to" certain windows (darkened, or perhaps next to the sunlight windows are a priority)?
Are you *really* spending all of this time on this issue, still?
I can't imagine the fun the flight crew would have by enforcing bright, direct sunshine into some passengers' eyes...
Those are just some of my "initial" thoughts...
GC
Last edited by GeezerCouple; Feb 19, 2019 at 1:06 pm
Feb 19, 2019, 1:03 pm
#66
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This is the companion thread to "Window Shades Up?" thread on the UA forum.
I think the OP there was complaining that a few in the cabin refused to darken/lower their shades, this impacting a bunch of people trying to sleep or watch movies.
I think the OP there was complaining that a few in the cabin refused to darken/lower their shades, this impacting a bunch of people trying to sleep or watch movies.
Feb 19, 2019, 1:30 pm
#70
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Here and there
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No, on AA they lock the 787s at the dark setting. I've heard a nearby pax get her window elevated a little lighter by noting that she had a phobia or something (I can't remember specifically), but that isolated. Otherwise, I've only ever had them locked dark.
Feb 19, 2019, 2:07 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2014
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I recently flew HNL-Lax-Mia-Lhr-Cai-Zrh-Sin-Hkg-Jfk within 7 days.
control over my window blinds are paramount to ensure I get sleep and adjust to time zone I need. Individual flight segments don’t matter when considering many connecting passengers.
equally I hate flights that offer breakfast catering...
control over my window blinds are paramount to ensure I get sleep and adjust to time zone I need. Individual flight segments don’t matter when considering many connecting passengers.
equally I hate flights that offer breakfast catering...
Feb 19, 2019, 2:15 pm
#73
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
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Last weekend we flew LHR-GIG in Club World. When I booked the flights in late November, of the 35 CW seats on this 787 Dreamliner, all 10 window seats were already taken. Even when check-in opened at T-24, no additional seats became available.
During take-off, the passengers whom I could see in the window seats didn't look out of the window once, and as soon as we finished the initial climb after take-off, they dimmed the windows, which blocked out all natural light. I complained to the cabin crew who switched on the cabin lights, which meant we could just about see our lunch while we ate it. We were forced to spend the rest of the flight in darkness - a daytime flight that pushed back on time at 11:25 and arrived well before its scheduled arrival time of 21:15. The time difference at this time of year between the UK and Rio de Janeiro is only 2 hours, so a change of time zone was no reason for the enforced darkness. While waiting for the loo, I spoke to both the first officer and the CSD, who agreed with my point of view, confirming it was the passengers and not the crew who had dimmed the windows in CW, but they said that it is British Airways' policy to allow passengers in window seats to control the daylight for the whole cabin.
I could see that in the WT and WT+ cabins, a minority of window seat passengers had thoughtfully maintained natural light for the benefit of all, but in CW just 10 CW passengers are given the power to selfishly enforce darkness on the remainder of the 35 passengers. On previous LHR-GIG flights, it had not been a problem because I had a window seat and I had ensured that natural light was not unreasonably denied.
As a result of being deprived of daylight for nearly all of this 11˝-hour daytime flight, it disrupted our body clocks, and we woke up for long periods during the subsequent night. Particularly on a 787 Dreamliner where the window dimming can be controlled remotely, I believe that the power of a minority to selfishly deprive the majority of daylight should be removed, particularly where the impact lasts longer than the flight itself. If passengers don't like being next to a source of natural light, then they should avoid booking window seats instead of selfishly depriving other passengers of natural light.
By coincidence, I had recently seen this very relevant article, which concurs with our experience: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/artic...ion/index.html
During take-off, the passengers whom I could see in the window seats didn't look out of the window once, and as soon as we finished the initial climb after take-off, they dimmed the windows, which blocked out all natural light. I complained to the cabin crew who switched on the cabin lights, which meant we could just about see our lunch while we ate it. We were forced to spend the rest of the flight in darkness - a daytime flight that pushed back on time at 11:25 and arrived well before its scheduled arrival time of 21:15. The time difference at this time of year between the UK and Rio de Janeiro is only 2 hours, so a change of time zone was no reason for the enforced darkness. While waiting for the loo, I spoke to both the first officer and the CSD, who agreed with my point of view, confirming it was the passengers and not the crew who had dimmed the windows in CW, but they said that it is British Airways' policy to allow passengers in window seats to control the daylight for the whole cabin.
I could see that in the WT and WT+ cabins, a minority of window seat passengers had thoughtfully maintained natural light for the benefit of all, but in CW just 10 CW passengers are given the power to selfishly enforce darkness on the remainder of the 35 passengers. On previous LHR-GIG flights, it had not been a problem because I had a window seat and I had ensured that natural light was not unreasonably denied.
As a result of being deprived of daylight for nearly all of this 11˝-hour daytime flight, it disrupted our body clocks, and we woke up for long periods during the subsequent night. Particularly on a 787 Dreamliner where the window dimming can be controlled remotely, I believe that the power of a minority to selfishly deprive the majority of daylight should be removed, particularly where the impact lasts longer than the flight itself. If passengers don't like being next to a source of natural light, then they should avoid booking window seats instead of selfishly depriving other passengers of natural light.
By coincidence, I had recently seen this very relevant article, which concurs with our experience: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/artic...ion/index.html
‘Didnt look out the window once’, just read that line back to yourself a moment.
Feb 19, 2019, 3:10 pm
#75
Suspended
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lots of ‘me’,I etc.
not everyone wants to be dazzled by sun, but if it’s too dark you can use a light.
For the OP to comment on jet lag is a little presumptuous that everyone is on the same time zone. Many aren’t. so best not to assume that what suits one person suits everyone.
However, to avoid this fly Ryanair- they don’t have window shades.
not everyone wants to be dazzled by sun, but if it’s too dark you can use a light.
For the OP to comment on jet lag is a little presumptuous that everyone is on the same time zone. Many aren’t. so best not to assume that what suits one person suits everyone.
However, to avoid this fly Ryanair- they don’t have window shades.