11˝-hour daytime flight in darkness

Old Feb 19, 2019, 9:58 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Come on now. There are 35 people on board. 35 different points of view. Some points of view - including your own - will be firmly placed. Others will have views strongly opposed to your views - don't take my word for it, you can find evidence in other FT threads on this vexed question. You cannot realistically have a referendum on this (though actually I suppose the IFE could be adapted now I think about it). Therefore no-one is going to be pleased - and logic is irrelevant here. The best way is to come up with a possibly childish rule which says "window seat controls window", and hope for commonsense adult behaviour will carry you through. I repeat that I share your view on keeping windows open.
Indeed, this one got quite animated [having been started from the exact opposite point of view] and still seems to rumbling along...

I am sympathetic to the OP and dislike flying in an artificially dark tube when there is no reason to do so. Ultimately though, if you are not in control of the windows you have to make do - I have not found the individually controllable lighting to be inadequate on any modern aircraft.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:02 am
  #47  
 
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I sympathise if the OP has an issue with jet lag... don't we all! And yes, trying to use natural light to reset the body clock is a tried and trusted technique. But I am doubtful of the benefits of trying to do it whilst in flight! Others will be on different body clock times to you. Also, is it not unnatural to be exposed to so long (or short) a period of daylight or night time that flying long-haul creates (depending which way you travel) so just when you should be closing the blinds or not is actually difficult to ascertain until you stop travelling. It is a bit of a moving target. So it makes much more sense to start your body clock reset when you arrive at your destination.

Of course, if you are travelling across many time-zones for an extended period of time then it may help trying to keep your body on one time-zone sleeping and waking as best you can to your home zone but that must be very difficult. There will be times when sleeping is impossible, when you want dinner and breakfast is served and when you want to stay awake when others want to sleep. I am doing a Round the World trip in 8 days in a couple of weeks. I did entertain the idea of trying to stay on GMT but concluded it was just impossible.

Best to just enjoy the flight, try to sleep if that is what you feel you want to do or not as you feel and then when you arrive at your final destination do the body clock reset thing.

Personally, I close the blind when I want to watch the IFE or when the sun is bothersome. The rest of the time it is up as I enjoy the view. Am I selfish? I don't think so. It is just how it is... windows seats control the blinds. There are times with the sun shining in when I couldn't survive with such a bright light and so if I couldn't control the blind I couldn't sit in a window seat.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:16 am
  #48  
 
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You have my sympathies but you’re never going to please all the people all the time. There may be people travelling across many time zones and their light requirements may be the exact opposite of yours.
The only practical suggestion is window seat controls the light. If you can’t get one then you’ll have to put on all the cabin/reading lighting you can.
Conversely if it’s too light you’ll have to put on the eye mask.

There is no solution or compromise that’s suits everyone. Sorry.

Have you thought of becoming brexit secretary?
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:19 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by highpeaklad
The only practical suggestion is window seat controls the light.
Why is this the only practical suggestion? Why not give control only to the cabin crew? Those who don't like the light coming from the window can book a middle E seat. With the technology on a 787, there's no reason to replicate the legacy physical blinds.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:34 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by NFH
Why not give control only to the cabin crew?
It wouldn't be practical for you, because you wouldn't like what the cabin crew would do if they had control: they would dim all the window shades.

What you would need to satisfy your wants is the additional factor of a directive from the airline that if the sun is shining outside, the cabin crew must force all the window shades to "open".

The fact that all of the window seat occupants closed their shades tells you something: that is what the majority of passengers want. The same behaviour can be observed on very many daylight flights on many airlines. If you think that the airline is going to require everyone to sit in brightness when the truth is that the majority of passengers would voluntarily dim the cabin, you will be sorely disappointed.

As others say: if you want natural light in your seat, get yourself a window seat (as you did on the inbound flight).
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:37 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by NFH
Why is this the only practical suggestion?
Maybe when all planes in the fleet have centralised crew control of window shades, there might be an argument for reviewing protocols and expectations. For now, it would be a source of confusion and increased arguments to have different rules on different airplanes and it is best to stick to what is generally regarded as normal practice across most, if not all, of the industry.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:39 am
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I think there's an echo in here.

If the crew are given sole control, they will tend to lock them to dark. Problem not solved.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:40 am
  #53  
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Originally Posted by JAXBA
If the crew are given sole control, they will tend to lock them to dark. Problem not solved.
That's not what the crew told me. They said that they would prefer to have daylight, but BA's policy is to allow passengers next to the window to control daylight for the whole cabin.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:41 am
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Dear OP,

Great maths question here (this will be familiar ground to pollsters!): We have a cabin of 35 passengers. Assuming the underlying cabin-light/cabin-dark preferences are evenly distributed amongst the 35 passengers, we then select a sample of 10 passengers from the group - if 100% of our 10 passenger sample prefers cabin-dark, what is the probability that a despite this sample, a majority of the overall group of 35 has a "cabin-light" preference?

Spoiler Alert: it's 0.01%

OP: it's time accept you're in a minority view on this.

Last edited by alexwuk; Feb 19, 2019 at 10:48 am
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:51 am
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by NFH
That's not what the crew told me. They said that they would prefer to have daylight, but BA's policy is to allow passengers next to the window to control daylight for the whole cabin.
Fine for that crew but I suspect another crew may disagree.

This is an environment that is not in one timezone and also in an environment which stays artificially in daylight or darkness. There is no "one fits all" solution.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj
Perhaps were trying to watch a film, read, work on their laptops, just keep cool? Maybe if you were in the window seat you may not have wanted sunlight blaring in.

I think you need to appreciate that 10/45 is quite. A big sample size

I have a feeling you’d be ranting if it was 8 hours difference but on arrival the difference between 9pm and 11pm assuming into bed at 11pm or 1AM could be a pain
agreed

At the window seat you often cannot see the tv well unless you darken the window.

From the op i am not sure why not lookimg out the window at take off is a problem. I choose the window seat so i am not disturbed by some peoples frequent trips to the galley/top ups followed by their subsequent frequent trips to the toilet
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:55 am
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I think all airlines allow pax in window seats to control if the window is up or down other than take off and landing.

you may be requested on overnight flights to close it.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 10:57 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet
you may be requested on overnight flights to close it.
And there are plenty of complaints here about such requests on daylight flights.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 11:08 am
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Whilst I too sympathasise with the OP, there are a number of reasons that people wish to dim the tint on the windows, indeed at altitude, there is of course increased ionised radiation and perhaps they want to utilise the ALARP principle contained in international convention. Many can attest despite your experience on your return route, direct sunlight does degrade the quality of IFE, this is dependent on the angle to the sun.

As someone who has been and studies the effects of only having artificial light for months at a time; you are unlikely to suffer on an 11 hour flight of Vitamin D deficiency. The CC clearly had sufficient light to be able ot serve the food, and with the personal lighting available in your seat, I can't see anyone realistically having trouble seeing their food whilst illuminated. It might be that the lack of natural daylight was not the cause of your lack of sleep upon arrival, but I can recommend wearing orange tinted glasses before sleep if you do have trouble, since they block blue light .

Overall, it is a timely reminder for us to consider our actions on those around us, but that goes to the OP demanding to have their preference of lighting over anyone else as much as it does to anyone sat in the window seat, who may have an equally valid reason to dim the window. As for talk of it not being their window, it being BAs, people pay a premium to select window seats and BA gives them the operation of the window blind as a privilege.
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Old Feb 19, 2019, 11:23 am
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I've mentioned in a previous post that during a LHR-LAX 12:30pm flight, the windows on my 787 were locked on fully dark for between 1/2-2/3 of the flight.
Prior to that, the sun coming in from the A side was going straight through my divider that was up and also reflecting off the K side cabin wall. I did appreciate some dimming in that respect but not for the bulk of the flight.

I had no intention of being forced to sleep for say 8hrs of a lunchtime flight that arrived mid-afternoon into Los Angeles.
The windows being practically purple tinted made it very hard to see much outside.

The blind thing is one reason I'm not keen on the 9:20pm or so departure from LAX. Even though you land in LHR after 3pm, and it may well have been light for 8-9hrs in the UK for a 10hr flight, you're still forced to try and sleep in a darkened cabin and it really would screw up my body clock if I were doing so.

I've had overnight flights were it's dark outside at take-off and landing and still the blinds are closed against my will. Ok, there might be a blinking light on the wing, but that shouldn't bother anyone really. Wear an eye shade if it's that bad.

Really annoyed me the first time I flew QF to SYD. About 6am, a couple of hours before landing, and sitting in 2A in F, I decided to look out the window to see my first views of Australia. The crew over-rode my window blinds.
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