Rant: why is T5 so badly connected?
#76
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai, UAE
Programs: Avis - PP, Bonvoy - Plat, BA - Bro, Hilton - Dia, Miles&More - FTL, Skywards - Sil, Sixt - Plat
Posts: 258
I guess the HEX is in line with the rest of London's public transport, since it is one of the most expensive cities in the world for commuting.
There was a Channel Four feature on recently that showed that the average train season ticket for a 30 miles commute to London was almost £4000, whereas the same distance of commute to Paris was around £900. And that a season ticket that covered the use of all public transport for the whole of Germany, was cheaper than a season ticket for commuting from Wokingham to London.
There was a Channel Four feature on recently that showed that the average train season ticket for a 30 miles commute to London was almost £4000, whereas the same distance of commute to Paris was around £900. And that a season ticket that covered the use of all public transport for the whole of Germany, was cheaper than a season ticket for commuting from Wokingham to London.
#77
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: london
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 266
Taxi is no quicker than the Piccadilly line for me at most times of the day. Exception is early hours before the tube starts when I can justify expensing the fare.
When I'm going to the airport it always seems to be 7 minutes till a T5 train. Just sitting on the platform now. T1, 2 and 3 are more frequent but depending on your terminal is a bit of a hike at the other end.
When I'm going to the airport it always seems to be 7 minutes till a T5 train. Just sitting on the platform now. T1, 2 and 3 are more frequent but depending on your terminal is a bit of a hike at the other end.
#78
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South East, UK
Programs: BA Gold / GfL, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,432
I live just 40 miles outside central London. I get a basic bus service that doesn't go anywhere particularly useful (one per hour during the day, nothing in the evening, nor most of the weekend). Plus I get the pleasure of using South Western Railways - now pretty much the worst and least reliable train company in the whole of the UK. I can't even get an Uber out here!
How anyone can claim that Heathrow is badly connected to central London when you have the option of frequent tubes, HEX and bus services is something I struggle with. Time for a reality check I think!
#79
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SYD, GOT
Programs: BA GGL; SK EBG; QF LTG; Hilton Diamond, A-Club Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,723
Never had an issue with bags on the Paddington line. No worse than any other public transport option. Much better than the train to the city from MEL for instance. ;-)
#80
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London
Programs: Qantas Platinum, United Premier 1K, HSBC Premier, AVIS President's Club, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 100
By the time I’ve got an uber to Paddington, lugged my bags down to the platform, waited for the train and then got off the train and lugged my bags at the other end, I really don’t think the difference is more than 10 minutes (35ish vs 45) and it’s certainly less convenient than being dropped off by the check in desk. I live very close to Paddington too, for other people it’s surely faster to get a cab. The exception being in rush hour, when I agree the train wins every time, although in my experience the taxi still doesn’t take more than an hour, even on a busy Friday evening.
#81
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
As a resident of one of the outermost southern London boroughs (Sutton), Ive long since had a gripe with T5's accessibility via public transport.
There is no rail option that I know of, and the nearest tube option would translate into a bus ride to Morden, with long ride into London and then back out west again after changing at Green Park or thereabouts.
There is a very good direct bus service (X26) which takes you to the central bus station, and really, T2 is literally there. To get to T5 from the central bus station, I could go to the T2/3 underground and then go one stop down. Ive been quite unlucky every time Ive tried that, with waits averaging about 10 minutes. There was this one time that I was told that the next Piccadilly train would be 25 (!) minutes. Moving between terminals via HEX is out as it involves a bit more walking.
I could change from the X26 at Hatton Cross and get on to another bus to T5 from there, but this goes to T4 first and youre looking at another 20 minutes at best while making all the glamorous stops down the Southern Perimeter road. I once spent 45 minutes on the way to T5 from Hatton Cross as the roads around T4 were positively rammed.
There is no rail option that I know of, and the nearest tube option would translate into a bus ride to Morden, with long ride into London and then back out west again after changing at Green Park or thereabouts.
There is a very good direct bus service (X26) which takes you to the central bus station, and really, T2 is literally there. To get to T5 from the central bus station, I could go to the T2/3 underground and then go one stop down. Ive been quite unlucky every time Ive tried that, with waits averaging about 10 minutes. There was this one time that I was told that the next Piccadilly train would be 25 (!) minutes. Moving between terminals via HEX is out as it involves a bit more walking.
I could change from the X26 at Hatton Cross and get on to another bus to T5 from there, but this goes to T4 first and youre looking at another 20 minutes at best while making all the glamorous stops down the Southern Perimeter road. I once spent 45 minutes on the way to T5 from Hatton Cross as the roads around T4 were positively rammed.
This is what I felt when I read this thread.
T5's public transport is OK from Central London and if you live along the train lines. (The Piccadilly line to T5 could be more frequent if the Rayners Lane branch was transferred to the District line, which may or may not be happening in the future. Personally if all terminals had been planned at the same time as the tube I would have built it as a bidirectional loop around Hatton Cross-T4-T5-T123-Hatton Cross.)
Where T5 fails is in bus connections. I frequently travel to LHR by bus but all the useful buses go to T2-3 only, requiring either a long trek into the tube station, and a wait of up to 20 minutes whenever one train is diverted or reversed early (and the info boards are not reliable), or the 482/490 bus which takes even longer. Funnily enough the easiest time to get to T5 is when the N9 is operating.
Going to Sutton, I wonder if you could do tube to Wimbledon (relatively easy change at Earls Court when compared to Leicester Square/Embankment) followed by either the Sutton loop Thameslink (now much improved and easy to get live running data from 3rd-party sites) or a combination of buses and/or trams (now can change between several services without an extra fare). Assuming not too much luggage obviously.
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
What I a comparing it to when I say that the London transport system is thus not less large UK cities but rather other "first world" metropoles - Paris, New York City, Tokyo, Moscow, or even other European main cities such as Berlin, Budapest, Copenhagen, Zurich, etc all of which have a much denser, effective, and cheaper urban transportation network especially when you count all rail infrastructure (ie train, tube, and tram).
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
Getting there ... slowly!
Dateline 2019
>>> Dulles Airport
1964 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) recommends reservation of the median of the Dulles International Airport Access Highway for a future transit line in Master Plan.
Scheduled to complete
Phase 2 construction will be complete in the next five years. Opening dates to be determined by the Metropolitan Washington Area Transit Authority
Phase 2 construction will be complete in the next five years. Opening dates to be determined by the Metropolitan Washington Area Transit Authority
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,520
Given that the starting point of this discussion is connection of the airport to the network, I am not convinced that main airports are better connected to the public transport infrastucture and offer more frequent and seamless connections in all of these cities than in London.
#85
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Marriott Platinum. Aspiring flyer with both feet on the ground.
Posts: 318
Going to Sutton, I wonder if you could do tube to Wimbledon (relatively easy change at Earls Court when compared to Leicester Square/Embankment) followed by either the Sutton loop Thameslink (now much improved and easy to get live running data from 3rd-party sites) or a combination of buses and/or trams (now can change between several services without an extra fare). Assuming not too much luggage obviously.
#86
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,991
I disagree: I think London has one of the best public transport systems of any major city in the world. And, despite frequent claims to the contrary, it costs about the same as public transport in my home city, Berlin.
#88
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Executive Club (Silver), Le Club Accor (Silver)
Posts: 680
Yes, things aren't perfect but the only people who could claim London has a genuinely poor public transport system are those who don't use it regularly, choosing instead to closet themselves away in taxis and minicabs, causing further congestion on the roads and slowing down the buses.
KT
P.S. I agree HEx is ridiculously expensive for what it is but the Piccadilly line and TfL Rail are good, reasonably priced, alternatives.
P.P.S Western Rail Access to Heathrow is finally progressing so there's at least some light at the end of the tunnel for those accessing the airport from the west.
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,520
A monthly travelcard zone 1-2 (the cheapest) costs £135. Even at today's awful exchange rate, that is over €150. An annual travelcard is £1404 (well over €1,500)
In Berlin a monthly travel card is €81, annual is €761
In Paris a toutes zones monthly carte Navigo is €75.20. Annual one is €827.20
In Rome monthly passes range for one zone are €24.50 and annual is €172 (only slightly more for zones 1-3)
In Madrid, abonos zone A (€54.60) or A-B2 (€72), annually, it is €543 and €720 respectively.
In Stockholm, all zone SEK860 for a month (~£75), not sure about annual.
In terms of your finding London one of the best public transport system in the world, I have of course no problem with you making that argument but could I ask what you base it on? The two main criteria I've seen used are affordability, average commuter travel time, and coverage, measured, as rightly noted by Jagboi, by the proportion of houses with given distance of stations. As mentioned though, unfortunately, the figures that Jagboi saw were badly mistaken, and in fact London compares very, very negatively to all the competitors above (not to mention the likes of Tokyo, Seoul, Singapore, or Moscow) on all three criterion, so it would be good to know which other criteria you have in mind if only so that I can cheer up my many friends living in East and South London.
* PS: i'm not aware that station closure at various point in the day is a criterion I've ever seen but I know it also annoys many people when trying to head home from Covent Garden, Holborn or several city stations when they finish work at peak time).
But the sheer volume of people we move every day in London, safely and generally punctually, is phenomenal. The Tube has just, in the run up to Christmas, had its busiest day ever with 5 million people travelling and we move even more than that by bus. Tube headway targets are consistently met 95+% of the time across most lines, with the poorer performers still in the 90s and due to be upgraded over the next decade.
I would whole-heartedly agree with your point if we compared London to Birmingham or Nottingham, but how do you think this compares to Paris, Moscow, let alone Tokyo or even NYC? As for targets, they are not an international standard of any sort, just that, targets set by London for a slow improvement of a situation known to be problematic for many.
Don't take me wrong, there is plenty done to try and improve the life of Londoners, chief among which the 24 hour tube which is a brilliant initiative. The network, however, remains largely what it is, not anyone's fault in particular (at least not today) but when big cities try to look for an example of network to emulate, London is just not what they focus their eyes on.
Last edited by orbitmic; Jan 7, 2019 at 5:36 am
#90
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
I hate to keep this thread so ot but...
A monthly travelcard zone 1-2 (the cheapest) costs £135. Even at today's awful exchange rate, that is over 150. An annual travelcard is £1404 (well over 1,500)
In Berlin a monthly travel card is 81, annual is 761
In Paris a toutes zones monthly carte Navigo is 75.20. Annual one is 827.20
In Rome monthly passes range for one zone are 24.50 and annual is 172 (only slightly more for zones 1-3)
In Madrid, abonos zone A (54.60) or A-B2 (72), annually, it is 543 and 720 respectively.
In Stockholm, all zone SEK860 for a month (~£75), not sure about annual.
A monthly travelcard zone 1-2 (the cheapest) costs £135. Even at today's awful exchange rate, that is over 150. An annual travelcard is £1404 (well over 1,500)
In Berlin a monthly travel card is 81, annual is 761
In Paris a toutes zones monthly carte Navigo is 75.20. Annual one is 827.20
In Rome monthly passes range for one zone are 24.50 and annual is 172 (only slightly more for zones 1-3)
In Madrid, abonos zone A (54.60) or A-B2 (72), annually, it is 543 and 720 respectively.
In Stockholm, all zone SEK860 for a month (~£75), not sure about annual.
So, getting back on topic, Heathrow is well connected, with train, express train, tube, bus, coach, hourly one-way car hire, taxi and easy motorway car options, less so to those outside of London. This is historic due to the way the airport has developed and, despite what Borris will tell you, it is difficult to build a new airport capable of taking wide-body aircraft Serving London.
There are better connected airports, but I dont think LHR is terrible.
Last edited by navylad; Jan 7, 2019 at 5:47 am