Business class from Chambery to London City - what a fraud
Jan 6, 2019, 3:19 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BA silver
Posts: 63
Chambéry checkin on a saturday ski season changeover day is an absolute zoo with all the charter flights and luggae/skis/boards. BA normally get shunted to the smaller check in area at the back, where there usually isnt space for more than one combined queue for all of the desks
Jan 6, 2019, 3:22 am
#32
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,770
Chambéry checkin on a saturday ski season changeover day is an absolute zoo with all the charter flights and luggae/skis/boards. BA normally get shunted to the smaller check in area at the back, where there usually isnt space for more than one combined queue for all of the desks
Jan 6, 2019, 3:27 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,405
O/T: It's pretty interesting to see the different philosophies re: priority tags. JL even went to the trouble to put on priority tags while my checked bags were in transit at HEL. There weren't any tags when I dropped them off at BRU for the AY flight, but they had first class tags by the time I picked them at NRT.
Jan 6, 2019, 4:46 am
#34
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: West Sussex, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold (11/Dec/18)
Posts: 262
The bottom of this link here gives away the lack of change of seating between ET and CE on CityFlyer. And, in an ironic twist of fate, BACF flights from Stansted do offer lounge access to BA Gold or CE tickets (sat in the Escape lounge now waiting to fly out to TXL), whereas LCY has no lounge.
My flight will be delayed though waiting the inward frame from... Chambery. Karma at its finest!
My flight will be delayed though waiting the inward frame from... Chambery. Karma at its finest!
Jan 6, 2019, 4:53 am
#35
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
I’ve just looked at the Club Europe page and seen that business class checkin is not a guaranteed benefit - it says “at most airports”. I was surprised about that. The OP should have got priority boarding, however.
I would like to think that if BA could offer a CE desk they would do so (as in general they do). Priority baggage delivery may not be an advertised benefit but I find it happens more often than not. I don’t think it’s right to say that the orange tags have no benefit at all airports - appreciate it’s in the barcode at Heathrow.
I am a fan of CE and do book it when I can (though less of a fan than I was...I am now a blue member when 4 years ago I was a GCH).
I’m sorry the OP was disappointed. I suppose the harsh reality is buyer beware, but I think lack of any ground benefits (even check in) is very poor. Frankly it’s poor for status members too!
I would like to think that if BA could offer a CE desk they would do so (as in general they do). Priority baggage delivery may not be an advertised benefit but I find it happens more often than not. I don’t think it’s right to say that the orange tags have no benefit at all airports - appreciate it’s in the barcode at Heathrow.
I am a fan of CE and do book it when I can (though less of a fan than I was...I am now a blue member when 4 years ago I was a GCH).
I’m sorry the OP was disappointed. I suppose the harsh reality is buyer beware, but I think lack of any ground benefits (even check in) is very poor. Frankly it’s poor for status members too!
Jan 6, 2019, 4:54 am
#36
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,175
I too have flown from Chambery recently. I was invited to visit friends who adore skiing and CMF is the nearest airport. As Sat is the huge change-over day at these resorts, little CMF which was inaugurated in the days when flying was for the wealthy, is swamped. A Lounge in an airport which is usually practically deserted during the week except for weekends would not be practical. As for there being no business check-in - I cannot answer. All I know is that the airport is also prone to fog. When I flew out, there was fog. They'd had the sense to hold the BA flight at LCY, others were circling and ended up in LYS. Thus he airport was heaving.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone. We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone. We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
Jan 6, 2019, 5:16 am
#38
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
I too have flown from Chambery recently. I was invited to visit friends who adore skiing and CMF is the nearest airport. As Sat is the huge change-over day at these resorts, little CMF which was inaugurated in the days when flying was for the wealthy, is swamped. A Lounge in an airport which is usually practically deserted during the week except for weekends would not be practical. As for there being no business check-in - I cannot answer. All I know is that the airport is also prone to fog. When I flew out, there was fog. They'd had the sense to hold the BA flight at LCY, others were circling and ended up in LYS. Thus he airport was heaving.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone.
We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone.
We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
“On flights to or from London City and London Stansted that are operated by our subsidiary BA CityFlyer, you will enjoy the same comfortable seat width and a similar seat pitch in Euro Traveller as in Club Europe.”
Jan 6, 2019, 5:20 am
#39
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Usually travelling
Programs: BA, SQ, VS, Lifetime Diamond Club Appreciator, Mucci
Posts: 488
I think the huge factor is Chambery airport itself and indeed a lot of the airports for skiing in that part of the world.
They are generally small, lack facilities and so the business class experience usually falls far short of expectations.
They are generally small, lack facilities and so the business class experience usually falls far short of expectations.
Jan 6, 2019, 6:18 am
#40
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
There are quite a few things I could say about this report, but I certainly thank the OP for adding to the information here.
I don't think FT regulars will be surprised since the BACF product is well known here, and HfP actively discourages people from booking CE on BACF services for many of the reasons you mention. BA don't advertise a lounge provision at Chambéry or LCY (and there is an FT lounge directory which identifies this too), nor an empty middle seat in the booking system. So in a sense the information about the Embraer seating and airport facilities is all online in multiple locations. BA isn't exactly alone in doing this, KLM and TAP have similar arrangements on their Embraer services too. The one thing BA does offer is a good use of Theoretical Seating for single passengers, which does generally work, in my case I've only had 2 occupied seats in my last 100 BACF services (that said it is a fairly impressive figure in ET too).
There is / was one wet lease aircraft with 1 + 2 fixed seating in CE but it is notable that it gets deployed on lower margin services - there isn't a business case for doing this generally on BACF. Chambéry is an extremely small airport. It's not even a quarter of the size of INV or LUX. The 10€ voucher is an improvement on what I got last year! I agree that the pulled pork isn't BACF's catering best option though for me it's OK to eat (see photos in the BACF catering guide elsewhere in FT) but typically Newrest will delete dishes which get negative feedback from the crew, I can think of two other corkers that are no longer offered.
I think there are two key benefits that haven't been mentioned so far. Chambéry is a ski resort location, so the extra baggage allowance for CE is important for many travellers and in some cases justifies paying the extra over ET. The typical uplift for CE over ET on that sector is around £55 if there is a Saturday night involved and two bags could be £60 to £85 each way in ET. Secondly for status passengers there is access to the lovely 2C and 2D,which must some of the longest legroom in European shorthaul aviation.
I guess the core point I'm trying to make is that CE on BACF or elsewhere on BA isn't for everyone, and those who are likely to be concerned about this can and should research the product before paying for it. Personally I like CE on BACF, and will continue to pay for it, it is popular on some routes, but I'm pleased that not everyone agrees, otherwise TS won't work!
I don't think FT regulars will be surprised since the BACF product is well known here, and HfP actively discourages people from booking CE on BACF services for many of the reasons you mention. BA don't advertise a lounge provision at Chambéry or LCY (and there is an FT lounge directory which identifies this too), nor an empty middle seat in the booking system. So in a sense the information about the Embraer seating and airport facilities is all online in multiple locations. BA isn't exactly alone in doing this, KLM and TAP have similar arrangements on their Embraer services too. The one thing BA does offer is a good use of Theoretical Seating for single passengers, which does generally work, in my case I've only had 2 occupied seats in my last 100 BACF services (that said it is a fairly impressive figure in ET too).
There is / was one wet lease aircraft with 1 + 2 fixed seating in CE but it is notable that it gets deployed on lower margin services - there isn't a business case for doing this generally on BACF. Chambéry is an extremely small airport. It's not even a quarter of the size of INV or LUX. The 10€ voucher is an improvement on what I got last year! I agree that the pulled pork isn't BACF's catering best option though for me it's OK to eat (see photos in the BACF catering guide elsewhere in FT) but typically Newrest will delete dishes which get negative feedback from the crew, I can think of two other corkers that are no longer offered.
I think there are two key benefits that haven't been mentioned so far. Chambéry is a ski resort location, so the extra baggage allowance for CE is important for many travellers and in some cases justifies paying the extra over ET. The typical uplift for CE over ET on that sector is around £55 if there is a Saturday night involved and two bags could be £60 to £85 each way in ET. Secondly for status passengers there is access to the lovely 2C and 2D,which must some of the longest legroom in European shorthaul aviation.
I guess the core point I'm trying to make is that CE on BACF or elsewhere on BA isn't for everyone, and those who are likely to be concerned about this can and should research the product before paying for it. Personally I like CE on BACF, and will continue to pay for it, it is popular on some routes, but I'm pleased that not everyone agrees, otherwise TS won't work!
Jan 6, 2019, 6:25 am
#41
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: BA Bronze, Hilton Gold, IHG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 454
I love that quote ... it's really is one of the finest examples of BA Marketing department spin.
Jan 6, 2019, 6:52 am
#42
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Executive Club Blue
Posts: 969
It’s a bit late now but on that particular meal rotation I’d definitely recommend the prawns over the pork.
Club Europe on CityFlyer is a popular product and at certain times of the year it’s not uncommon to have 38 in Club on some routes, particularly IBZ and PMI.
Club Europe on CityFlyer is a popular product and at certain times of the year it’s not uncommon to have 38 in Club on some routes, particularly IBZ and PMI.
Jan 6, 2019, 7:32 am
#43
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
As PUCCI says, CMF is tiny and changeover day is a complete nightmare.
From memory, there just aren’t enough check-in desks to even contemplate a separate desk for CE.
It’s about as big as your average Greek island airport (it had me in mind of Kefalonia to be fair), and the departure lounge was tiny. In fact, they had us boarding the plane practically as soon as we had gone through security just to make space for everyone.
From memory, there just aren’t enough check-in desks to even contemplate a separate desk for CE.
It’s about as big as your average Greek island airport (it had me in mind of Kefalonia to be fair), and the departure lounge was tiny. In fact, they had us boarding the plane practically as soon as we had gone through security just to make space for everyone.
Jan 6, 2019, 8:33 am
#44
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Platinum; Hilton Gold, IHG Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Wyndham Diamond
Posts: 788
I too have flown from Chambery recently. I was invited to visit friends who adore skiing and CMF is the nearest airport. As Sat is the huge change-over day at these resorts, little CMF which was inaugurated in the days when flying was for the wealthy, is swamped. A Lounge in an airport which is usually practically deserted during the week except for weekends would not be practical. As for there being no business check-in - I cannot answer. All I know is that the airport is also prone to fog. When I flew out, there was fog. They'd had the sense to hold the BA flight at LCY, others were circling and ended up in LYS. Thus he airport was heaving.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone. We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
The aircraft is from a Franchise called CityFlyer. I actually like them. The salad that you did not like is a matter of taste. Seeing the times of the flight, I am surprised that there were scones as I thought that these were served with afternoon tea, but I may well be wrong. They would have had a full bar service, although you might have had to ring for it as there are only two cabin crew on this aircraft and the Lead goes back to work in Y to get the service done - There were only 4 of us in CE when I travelled. I imagine that during the School breaks there are a lot more.
Much is made here about the state of CE. I like it and am happy to pay for it not to be sitting next to anyone. We've exhausted the arguments to and fro - those who think that it is waste of money are not obliged to spend any, those who hate the whole product should fly someone other carrier (i would if I had a choice and felt that way), and as it happens CE is often packed and extends down to Row 7 or 8 on the routes that I fly. It is a shame that you feel cheated, but what you had is more or less the norm for Europe - sorry.
Jan 6, 2019, 10:49 am
#45
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Whenever reading first-hand flight reports such as these, I generally react with a mix of genuine sympathy, tempered significantly by a strong feeling of “we could have told you so”.
At the time the OP was about to click on the CE option, and thus spend an extra 200 euros for what was hoped would be a superior experience (but which ultimately amounted, in her eyes, to little more than a ‘free’ scone), it would be good if a helpful little genie could somehow pop up on the screen and say “just before you book, I thought you might want to know that ....
- there is no lounge at Chambéry
- you won’t get any privileges at check-in
- the seat is no different to an economy seat
- there will be no effective priority boarding (although that is often the case at any number of other stations too...)
- if you happen to be in the last row of CE, you will get to leave the aircraft about five seconds before the first row of Y passengers
- there is no priority baggage service
Even in the West End, those 200 euros could have bought a pretty good dinner for two, rather than a scone.
Leisure travellers paying from their own pocket choose to travel CE for all manner of reasons and - as with any discretionary spend - the ‘benefits’ will of course always be very subjective. But where the cold financials of CE vs euro traveller are concerned, I personally think this quasi-spreadsheet analysis by kingcole974 is about as good as anything I have seen ....
At the time the OP was about to click on the CE option, and thus spend an extra 200 euros for what was hoped would be a superior experience (but which ultimately amounted, in her eyes, to little more than a ‘free’ scone), it would be good if a helpful little genie could somehow pop up on the screen and say “just before you book, I thought you might want to know that ....
- there is no lounge at Chambéry
- you won’t get any privileges at check-in
- the seat is no different to an economy seat
- there will be no effective priority boarding (although that is often the case at any number of other stations too...)
- if you happen to be in the last row of CE, you will get to leave the aircraft about five seconds before the first row of Y passengers
- there is no priority baggage service
Even in the West End, those 200 euros could have bought a pretty good dinner for two, rather than a scone.
Leisure travellers paying from their own pocket choose to travel CE for all manner of reasons and - as with any discretionary spend - the ‘benefits’ will of course always be very subjective. But where the cold financials of CE vs euro traveller are concerned, I personally think this quasi-spreadsheet analysis by kingcole974 is about as good as anything I have seen ....
My summary of BA shorthaul business class is this:-
Lounge Access (but many have it anyhow)
No one sitting next to you (but many get that anyhow in Y)
Less leg room (as many can choose exit row in Y)
Food and drink included (maybe a £10 value)
Extra Avios (usually a £5 to £10 value)
Sooner off the plane (how valuable is 3 minutes)
Priorty boarding (many have this anyhow)
An extra bag (many have that anyhow through status but how many need two regardless)
Extra TP (yes I’ve paid CE for these)
The hidden perception of priority baggage (no it’s not offered so why put on a priorty tag which only angers when it’s last off)
For a silver member I’d value CE as a £20 value over Economy (the one where you get baggage). For me that £10 is £10 on food, £5 in extra Avios, £2 in getting off sooner minus £7 for less legroom)
The TP value is personal. For some £50 extra could give huge benefits as it could make someone gold for the best part of 2 years and a futher year of silver. For others it will mean nothing.
Overall CE offers very little and for someone who is not a regular on BA and maybe has just been tempted by an offer from BA to upgrade, they will be dissapointed.
Saying that. I just splurged a whopping £38 extra to fly CE to FAO in the summer. With luck I’ll grab row one so I’m not my perceived £7 worse off for less leg room) and I’ll make sure I drink at least 3 bottles of fizz to ensure I’m on the right side. The extra 35TP could be very useful later in my TP year.
Lounge Access (but many have it anyhow)
No one sitting next to you (but many get that anyhow in Y)
Less leg room (as many can choose exit row in Y)
Food and drink included (maybe a £10 value)
Extra Avios (usually a £5 to £10 value)
Sooner off the plane (how valuable is 3 minutes)
Priorty boarding (many have this anyhow)
An extra bag (many have that anyhow through status but how many need two regardless)
Extra TP (yes I’ve paid CE for these)
The hidden perception of priority baggage (no it’s not offered so why put on a priorty tag which only angers when it’s last off)
For a silver member I’d value CE as a £20 value over Economy (the one where you get baggage). For me that £10 is £10 on food, £5 in extra Avios, £2 in getting off sooner minus £7 for less legroom)
The TP value is personal. For some £50 extra could give huge benefits as it could make someone gold for the best part of 2 years and a futher year of silver. For others it will mean nothing.
Overall CE offers very little and for someone who is not a regular on BA and maybe has just been tempted by an offer from BA to upgrade, they will be dissapointed.
Saying that. I just splurged a whopping £38 extra to fly CE to FAO in the summer. With luck I’ll grab row one so I’m not my perceived £7 worse off for less leg room) and I’ll make sure I drink at least 3 bottles of fizz to ensure I’m on the right side. The extra 35TP could be very useful later in my TP year.