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BA A380 positioning from Heathrow to Gatwick

BA A380 positioning from Heathrow to Gatwick

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Old Jan 6, 19, 12:35 am
  #16  
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LH has started MRO in Hamburg accepting that these birds donít fit fully in the shed.

As for environmental impact, I donít think we can comment given the FT collective number of miles of unnecessary flying to get Ex-EU, TP runs etc.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 12:50 am
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Originally Posted by moral_low_ground View Post
Bad for the climate flying empty A380's 6000 miles for maintenance. Bad for jobs doing the same thing (ask the ship builders on the Clyde (Trump has the right idea here at least)). Maybe one day people will realize the folly of it all but by then will probably be too late
Many aspects of aviation are bad for the climate and jobs. However BA is a business and it comes down to the money.

You might personally prefer fares to be increased in order to do maintenance in the UK but I doubt many would agree.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 1:54 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
Itís not as though the only a380 upkeep facility in the world is MNL. I can see why QF chose them as they are both offering a good deal and convenient to them, but perhaps in the case of BA that choice is a bit more inconvenient?
I had a (very limited) role, in a previous project, in looking at maintenance providers for heavy inputs for the 380 fleet. This dates way back to the days before the 380s were even due to arrive, so I'd expect things to have changed, but in Europe we had little options. LH Technik and AF Maintenance were busy with theirs; then you had Emirates, but back then they were keener on doing their own thing and didn't have a lot of third party work (things must've changed now, at least from a Line Maintenance point of view). We then settled on SIA Technics over in Singapore, but this was then changed to LH Technik in Manila. Don't really know why; I suppose costs were a factor, but - and this was a big surprise to me, knowing SIA - I hear quality also played a part. In fact some of the first refurb'd 777s at LGW had quite a lot of assembly issues, whilst BAMC isn't having the same problems. Or so I hear.

Originally Posted by drvannostren View Post
It really is amazing that a plane was designed with seemingly no regard for existing infrastructure. I'm not old enough to have a good perspective on 747s, but maybe it was the same for that? Every time the 380 comes in here at YVR, taxiways have to be closed and only 1 gate I believe is still equipped (it MAY be 2 now). I remember we got a diversion to/from SFO one night and it turned into a whole thing of "crap we need to move a 380 from the gate to the pad cuz only 64 can handle it"...just nuts.
Well, it most definitely was! If you think about it, the 747-100 was almost twice as big as anything else in the sky, for civilian ops at least, back then. But things were different then. Airlines said and airports did; plus, in many cases both entities had the same owner, the state, and money wasn't an issue.

Originally Posted by moral_low_ground View Post
Bad for the climate flying empty A380's 6000 miles for maintenance. Bad for jobs doing the same thing (ask the ship builders on the Clyde (Trump has the right idea here at least)). Maybe one day people will realize the folly of it all but by then will probably be too late
When possible, in fact, the 380s operate first to SIN (or HKG I suppose, but I've only seen it happening in SIN) and then fly over to Manila, swapping places with an inbound plane out of maintenance. However, with 12 frames in fleet it's not like the stars can always align. However, I agree with you; but it's a common problem worldwide I think. I've read Rose George's 90% of Everything, on the shipping industry, and it was staggering to read that it was cheaper to send fish caught in Scotland to China for filleting than to do it there.

----

All the above, but for the filleting piece, is my own opinion and doesn't reflect BA's position.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 2:05 am
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Originally Posted by 13900 View Post
I've read Rose George's 90% of Everything, on the shipping industry, and it was staggering to read that it was cheaper to send fish caught in Scotland to China for filleting than to do it there.
I remember there was a similar story in the news a few years ago about how Youngís Grimsby prawns were shipped all the way to Thailand for peeling by hand, before being shipped all the way back for sale over here. Apparently this was cheaper and more efficient than using machines to do it here.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 2:09 am
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Thanks for your input 13900

this is simply why I love Flyertalk

out ur of interest did IAG ever consider building mx infrastructure for the A388 fleet or was it always discounted ?

also are current facilities at CWL/LHR able to accommodate future deliveries?


cs
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Old Jan 6, 19, 4:37 am
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Originally Posted by cornishsimon View Post
Thanks for your input 13900

this is simply why I love Flyertalk

out ur of interest did IAG ever consider building mx infrastructure for the A388 fleet or was it always discounted ?

also are current facilities at CWL/LHR able to accommodate future deliveries?


cs
IAG doesn't operate enough A380s to make a maintenance facility viable - ideally at least two parallel heavy maintenance lines is the minimum efficient loading so you would be talking of a fleet approaching 50 to provide this. LHT in MNL service BA QF KE etc (as well as other types) so it is viable for them. And agree with CWS - in the last few days taxi out times at MNL have approached 90 minutes. It is a congestion nightmare, on arrival, on departure, at immigration, on the roads....The airlines have campaigned for the closure (or non use in normal ops) of the perpendicular runway - with the right equipment and run like LGW the capacity could be near doubled but the authorities have failed to grasp this. I believe NATS have even advised them thus.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 5:01 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post


Itís not as though the only a380 upkeep facility in the world is MNL. I can see why QF chose them as they are both offering a good deal and convenient to them, but perhaps in the case of BA that choice is a bit more inconvenient?
My thoughts exactly!

Also makes a bit of a joke of ďas part of BAís continuous commitment to the environment...Ē spiel on their PA script when they fly empty A380s that sort of distance! Itís ok though because we recycle the newspapers.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 5:07 am
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Originally Posted by Ldnn1 View Post


I remember there was a similar story in the news a few years ago about how Youngís Grimsby prawns were shipped all the way to Thailand for peeling by hand, before being shipped all the way back for sale over here. Apparently this was cheaper and more efficient than using machines to do it here.
Here in The Netherlands, small, North Sea shrimps, are still driven over to Morocco to be peeled by hand, and then driven back...
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Old Jan 6, 19, 5:23 am
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I can't recall the current situation regarding Phillipine airlines but a few years ago they were largely banned from flying in EU airspace due to not meeting the safety requirements.

I found it rather interesting to land at MNL (some years ago) and see 2 QF A380's in the hangar, no doubt receiving maintenance at the lowest possible cost...
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Old Jan 6, 19, 5:28 am
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To be fair, isnít the maintenance actually a Lufthansa Technik base rather than Phillippine Airlines?

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Old Jan 6, 19, 6:37 am
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This aircraft needed to depart in the early hours of the morning Due to the LHR curfew they flew it to LGW in order to set off on time. This is as per the BA Source.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 7:01 am
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Originally Posted by AdrianinLondon View Post
This aircraft needed to depart in the early hours of the morning Due to the LHR curfew they flew it to LGW in order to set off on time. This is as per the BA Source.
As already reported at the start of the thread then?
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Old Jan 6, 19, 7:13 am
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Apparently so! Move on.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 7:42 am
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Originally Posted by IAMORGAN View Post
Also makes a bit of a joke of ďas part of BAís continuous commitment to the environment...Ē spiel on their PA script when they fly empty A380s that sort of distance! Itís ok though because we recycle the newspapers.
There is a fallacy of failing to consider the total impact of, say, landfilling all the newspapers and magazines from all BA flights every day (instead of collecting and recycling them) compared to the impact of one A380 positioning flight every few months to do heavy maintenance on it.

And if someone was going to build another European A380 maintenance facility, how much energy and resources would that need compared to using the existing one in Manila?

It's always a bit complicated....
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Old Jan 6, 19, 7:46 am
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Originally Posted by 13900 View Post
I've read Rose George's 90% of Everything, on the shipping industry, and it was staggering to read that it was cheaper to send fish caught in Scotland to China for filleting than to do it there.

----

All the above, but for the filleting piece, is my own opinion and doesn't reflect BA's position.
Are you saying that the formal British Airways position is that they too think it is staggering to send fish to China for filleting? I must have missed that press release
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