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Can I help you Jul 2, 19 2:16 pm

If you a get a few you might get nominated by your manager and get a £50 Amazon voucher, personally I do not hand them in, some crew would kill for them, sad!

Heathrow Tower Jul 2, 19 3:40 pm


Originally Posted by LGWClosedAgain (Post 31262108)
One for the pilots/flight planners. How does the final flight plan that is filed with UK ATC get to all the area control centres on route? For example, say LHR-SIN, how does each ACC know what the plan is? I canít imagine itís individually submitted to every single FIR the flight is due to pass though.

If Iím not mistake, Russia charges a hefty fee to flyover Siberia and China only allows commercial flights on a number of the very limited airways. So does each FIR have to approve the route before itís accepted?

Within participating states (basically all of Europe, including Iceland) there is something known as IFPS, the Integrated Flight Plan Processing System. Any flight that routes in this airspace only needs to be sent to this one addressee, and IFPS will disseminate it to the appropriate ACCs.

So for the portion of an LHR-SIN flight that is inside the IFPS zone, thatís simple, but yes, for the portion outside the IFPS zone, it needs to be addressed to individual ACCs (or more accurately FIRs - Flight Information Regions, some FIRs might have more than one ACC within it, but the ANSP is responsible for ensuring the dissemination within FIRs).

Iím no expert, so imagine some areas/states might have similar arrangements to IFPS (Australia I think?), where one address is used for a flight plan processing system and that system then further cascades the flight plan out as appropriate.

flatlander Jul 16, 19 11:13 am


Originally Posted by Waterhorse (Post 31191076)
The Reds will formate on the Jumbo, they have the skills,the practice and the aircraft with the agility to do it. The jumbo will probably be hand flown or use very basic autopilot inputs. The Jumbo must not do any unannounced or unpredictable manoeuvres so turn entry needs to be smooth and gentle not sudden or initiated without due warning. This is most easily achieved by hand flying. There may well be a member of the Reds on the Jumbo flight deck to co-ordinate and " lead" the formation, I'm not certain of that though. There will be meetings and liaison between the pilots flying the Jumbo and the Reds, and the BA pilots are likely to be ex military themselves so not unfamiliar with the procedures and skills required

There's a Q&A with the Commander here: https://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/vi...s-flypast-crew
with a few more details for the public. Four pilots are listed (and named) including two safety pilots, and Flight Technical Manager on-board to manage the cameras. No word on manual flying.

nancypants Jul 20, 19 4:41 am

After discussion with uncle T I am posting here

as some of you may or may not know, I hail from Australia, land of CTAFs, uncontrolled airspace and not that many control towers

currently in the Scottish islands and surprised to find places such as benbecula, barra etc have ATC Towers (havenít made it to westray airport yet but I suspect they do not)

in australia I doubt any of these places would- smallest I can think of with a tower is Albury (possibly due to a large amount of flight school traffic), Ayers Rock is uncontrolled, places like Horn Island and certain fields on the Tiwis that can exceed 50 movements per hour (I believe) at peak times also uncontrolled

so the question is, whatís the deal? Does the UK have uncontrolled airspace/uncontrolled fields at all, or are the limits just different or...whatís going on?!

furthermore. If you are an ATCO in say Barra, are you expected to multi role? Or is it a part time job? (iíd imagine theyíd need at least 2 controllers but obviously donít know this, could be some kind of fly in arrangement maybe?). And if itís a multi role thing, what on earth does an ATCO do the rest of their time?

so many questions for a confused Australian!

(also whatís all this about a bear obsession?!)

rapidex Jul 20, 19 5:18 am

The ATCO's play an absolutely vital role, such as making sure there is fresh tea in the pot for the next landing aircraft.

nancypants Jul 20, 19 5:23 am


Originally Posted by rapidex (Post 31323202)
The ATCO's play an absolutely vital role, such as making sure there is fresh tea in the pot for the next landing aircraft.

trying to think of an acronym for ATCO. Always tea/coffee on?!

JAtko Jul 20, 19 9:59 am


Originally Posted by nancypants (Post 31323163)
so the question is, whatís the deal? Does the UK have uncontrolled airspace/uncontrolled fields at all, or are the limits just different or...whatís going on?!

The UK has lots of Uncontrolled Airspace:
- Anything above FL195 (19,500ft) is Class C Controlled Airspace (with a couple of weird exceptions)
- Below 19,500ft, inside Airways and anywhere near major airports it's Class A/D Controlled Airspace, everywhere else it's Uncontrolled

The vast majority of UK airports that have commercial service will be controlled (i.e. staffed by an ATCO), even ones that are outside Controlled Airspace (e.g. Exeter, Newquay, Farnborough, Humberside). At Barra and Benbecula (as with lots of small airfields) they have a tower but the people inside aren't controllers, they're Flight Information Officers. In the US/Australia e.t.c. their uncontrolled airports have no-one at all there, which we have here for really small airfields/airstrips, I don't believe anything commercial here flies into any uncontrolled airfields.

We have far less uncontrolled airspace here than Australia as there's an awful lot of commercial aircraft to fit into not a very big country!! :)

T8191 Jul 20, 19 11:39 am

The upcoming development is ‘remoted ATC’, with operations being controlled at another location. ISTR trials are being conducted for London City to be controlled from London Centre down at Swanwick in Hampshire, using a battery of video cameras. And the RAF is also considering a similar ‘clutch airfield’ arrangement at some locations.

I believe such ‘remote control’ is used in Oz and the US already.

T8191 Jul 20, 19 11:43 am


Originally Posted by nancypants (Post 31323211)


trying to think of an acronym for ATCO. Always tea/coffee on?!

A Truly Charming Operator always worked for me. ;)

But within UK Mil generally known as The Flying Prevention Branch. :D

MADPhil Jul 20, 19 12:09 pm


Originally Posted by JAtko (Post 31323815)
The vast majority of UK airports that have commercial service will be controlled (i.e. staffed by an ATCO), even ones that are outside Controlled Airspace (e.g. Exeter, Newquay, Farnborough, Humberside). At Barra and Benbecula (as with lots of small airfields) they have a tower but the people inside aren't controllers, they're Flight Information Officers.

Glad to hear it as I should be flying into Newquay on Tuesday :)

nancypants Jul 20, 19 12:31 pm

Not sure about remote control in Oz, not that iíve heard of although havenít conducted an exhaustive survey 🤔

eta hmm apparently it was trialled in 2012 at my/our home airport (YBAS/ASP/Alice springs). Obviously went well as tower is fully staffed as before

TraumaDoc Jul 20, 19 1:13 pm


Originally Posted by T8191 (Post 31324083)
The upcoming development is Ďremoted ATCí, with operations being controlled at another location. ISTR trials are being conducted for London City to be controlled from London Centre down at Swanwick in Hampshire, using a battery of video cameras. And the RAF is also considering a similar Ďclutch airfieldí arrangement at some locations.

I believe such Ďremote controlí is used in Oz and the US already.

And of course being 'pioneered' in GB by your/our home airport!

https://www.atc-network.com/atc-news...wer-technology

T8191 Jul 20, 19 1:45 pm

Only a standby facility of course, although no less valid for that.

In the RAF we had alternate ATC facilities on our major airfields for wartime use in case the primary facility was knocked out. They were, and undoubtedly still are, exercised regularly. I could tell some funny tales on that subject, but too much of a thread diversion.

corporate-wage-slave Jul 20, 19 4:06 pm


Originally Posted by JAtko (Post 31323815)
We have far less uncontrolled airspace here than Australia as there's an awful lot of commercial aircraft to fit into not a very big country!! :)

Let me welcome you to Flyertalk and also to the BA board JAtko. And thank you also for the interesting background that you have given us in your first post. I know that one of the Barra Flight Information Officers is also a farmer / crofter with quite a few agricultural sidelines thanks to his large polytunnel, so I imagine a rather different way of life to those working in the Heathrow Tower. I hope we will hear more from you in the future.

Ancient Observer Jul 20, 19 5:23 pm

The RAF and various little "commercial" airlines are constantly arguing about which airspace is/isn't/should be/shouldn't be Controlled. Not enough air up there causes a lot of hot air down here.


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