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Davidjonesk Jun 10, 19 3:44 pm

I’ve been watching some vlogs that cabin crew make. They mostly concern US-based cabin crew.

On query I had relating to BA is the procedure for crew boarding their plane.

At LHR, you often see the crew going to their plane together presumably from the staff area. What happens at outstations? How early can the crew board? Are there rules etc? Can crew board separately and does someone check their ID? Is the senior crew member responsible?

What about when crew want to do duty free shopping etc?

speedbuslhr Jun 10, 19 5:01 pm


Originally Posted by Davidjonesk (Post 31189761)
Iíve been watching some vlogs that cabin crew make. They mostly concern US-based cabin crew.

On query I had relating to BA is the procedure for crew boarding their plane.

At LHR, you often see the crew going to their plane together presumably from the staff area. What happens at outstations? How early can the crew board? Are there rules etc? Can crew board separately and does someone check their ID? Is the senior crew member responsible?

What about when crew want to do duty free shopping etc?

Worldwide and Euro Fleet are all very independent. Mostly they all do their separate thing after their briefing and meet at the gate or onboard the aircraft. They do often go shopping or go the get food etc.
Mixed fleet however are much stricter. Its very rare for them to separate unless they have a long wait between flights at Heathrow. Usually they stay together all the way from Security to the gate and even after flights they stay together all the way until exiting arrivals where they can go their separate ways.
Crew usually board at -45 for SH or -60 to -50 for LH.
At outstations crew normally all stay together as its not our hub airport and every airport has different procedures. Once crew arrive at an outstation from the hotel coming back to LHR then timings are a bit more tight its usually arrive at the airport and straight to the aircraft.
Iíve seen some of the US flight attendants vlogs too and dont know how they find the time to do them.

shefgab Jun 10, 19 5:30 pm


Originally Posted by alpha320 (Post 31145118)
There are some hanging around at Gatwick with Oasis as the boarding music!

OMG, Oasis would be so much better for boarding music than the current stuff.


Originally Posted by icegirl (Post 31170546)
Can Mixed Fleet crew that join as new recruits, choose just to do short haul routes on a Monday to Friday basis only if they wanted? (asking for a friend)

If they know how to bid, then yes. "There and back" routes are generally not very popular with MF crew, unless you need to be home every night.


Originally Posted by Davidjonesk (Post 31189761)
Iíve been watching some vlogs that cabin crew make. They mostly concern US-based cabin crew.
On query I had relating to BA is the procedure for crew boarding their plane.
At LHR, you often see the crew going to their plane together presumably from the staff area. What happens at outstations? How early can the crew board? Are there rules etc? Can crew board separately and does someone check their ID? Is the senior crew member responsible? What about when crew want to do duty free shopping etc?

MF crew generally stay together as as group. Pick up times from crew hotels generally don't allow time to detour to duty free. Crew IDs are checked by ground crew at the gate.

TTmex Jun 10, 19 10:19 pm


Originally Posted by Globaliser (Post 31145256)
:confused: Don't they just bring their own McDonalds?

Yep. And they take turns to eat in the first class cabin. Chicken nuggets normally

TheRealBabushka Jun 10, 19 11:56 pm


Originally Posted by Can I help you (Post 30633180)

Everyone should be treated the same, we are all trained to the same standards but letís just say some care more than offers.
Never sit in your seat and feel unhappy, if you are not being treated as you expect then ask to speak to one of the senior crew onboard so that we can manage the situation.

Agreed, but not a very British thing to do so isnít it? Could some less motivated crew take advantage of that?

Waterhorse Jun 11, 19 2:21 am

The squeaky wheel gets the grease; if you are happy to sit in your seat silently fuming, rather than say something and change the situation, then you will just there and fume. I know it's very British but WE cannot change things for the better unless you tell us there is something wrong, be it a failing in a service standard or in service delivery. Ask, do it politely and without anger, the thing irritating you may just be an innocent oversight and simply and easily corrected. We are all human and sometimes make errors, usually we are happy to learn and to be reminded.

Cw novice Jun 11, 19 2:29 am

I was reading on twitter that the BOAC liveried 747 would be flying with the Red Arrows at an airshow.

How do the pilots fly these is it done on autopilot or is it hand flown. Is it also the case that as the 747 is the central aircraft that the Red Arrows will match the speed and direction of the 747.

Waterhorse Jun 11, 19 3:23 am

The Reds will formate on the Jumbo, they have the skills,the practice and the aircraft with the agility to do it. The jumbo will probably be hand flown or use very basic autopilot inputs. The Jumbo must not do any unannounced or unpredictable manoeuvres so turn entry needs to be smooth and gentle not sudden or initiated without due warning. This is most easily achieved by hand flying. There may well be a member of the Reds on the Jumbo flight deck to co-ordinate and " lead" the formation, I'm not certain of that though. There will be meetings and liaison between the pilots flying the Jumbo and the Reds, and the BA pilots are likely to be ex military themselves so not unfamiliar with the procedures and skills required

alpha320 Jun 11, 19 4:10 am


Originally Posted by Waterhorse (Post 31191076)
The Reds will formate on the Jumbo, they have the skills,the practice and the aircraft with the agility to do it. The jumbo will probably be hand flown or use very basic autopilot inputs. The Jumbo must not do any unannounced or unpredictable manoeuvres so turn entry needs to be smooth and gentle not sudden or initiated without due warning. This is most easily achieved by hand flying. There may well be a member of the Reds on the Jumbo flight deck to co-ordinate and " lead" the formation, I'm not certain of that though. There will be meetings and liaison between the pilots flying the Jumbo and the Reds, and the BA pilots are likely to be ex military themselves so not unfamiliar with the procedures and skills required

Likely *full* use made of the autopilot - it does and will take a lot for the 747 fleet team to produce a safety case for this to go ahead. Pilots will likely be senior trainers.

alpha320 Jun 11, 19 4:13 am


Originally Posted by Davidjonesk (Post 31189761)
Iíve been watching some vlogs that cabin crew make. They mostly concern US-based cabin crew.

On query I had relating to BA is the procedure for crew boarding their plane.

At LHR, you often see the crew going to their plane together presumably from the staff area. What happens at outstations? How early can the crew board? Are there rules etc? Can crew board separately and does someone check their ID? Is the senior crew member responsible?

What about when crew want to do duty free shopping etc?

Crew normally stick together, I think Mixed Fleet have no choice, they have to! Gatwick and Eurofleet aren't so strict. Pilots will try and walk out with the crew unless they still need to brief and vice-versa. ID's not always checked as you've already gone through security to get airside.

There is sometimes time for duty free on a turn-around at places like Gibraltar.

EJetter Jun 11, 19 4:20 am


Originally Posted by speedbuslhr (Post 31189983)


Worldwide and Euro Fleet are all very independent. Mostly they all do their separate thing after their briefing and meet at the gate or onboard the aircraft. They do often go shopping or go the get food etc.
Mixed fleet however are much stricter. Its very rare for them to separate unless they have a long wait between flights at Heathrow. Usually they stay together all the way from Security to the gate and even after flights they stay together all the way until exiting arrivals where they can go their separate ways.
Crew usually board at -45 for SH or -60 to -50 for LH.
At outstations crew normally all stay together as its not our hub airport and every airport has different procedures. Once crew arrive at an outstation from the hotel coming back to LHR then timings are a bit more tight its usually arrive at the airport and straight to the aircraft.
Iíve seen some of the US flight attendants vlogs too and dont know how they find the time to do them.

At CityFlyer, report time is one hour before the first duty. Usually flight and cabin crew will head to the aircraft together but if one set of crew finishes their brief quickly and wants to grab something from Pret, duty free or Boots they might go on ahead. Crew should board the aircraft at least 30 minutes prior to departure. Itís all pretty slick and usually if the aircraft hasnít been sat on the ground youíll be boarding the incoming aircraft just as the outgoing crew are gathering their belongings. It gets pretty hectic at this moment, with cleaners, caterers and two sets of crew trying to do their thing in a small jet!

At a lot of European airports crew are driven directly from staff search to the aircraft, bypassing the terminal. At other airports the crew will generally stick together, even at the ones where transport time from the hotel is generous and allows time to pop into duty free or to grab a coffee.

Arriving back at base, LCY arrivals is so small that thereís really no opportunity to split up unless one of the crew is transferring to another duty (in which case they remain airside) or need to visit the toilet. Most turnarounds are done on the same aircraft so the crew will remain on board but where thereís an aircraft change the crew will generally set up camp at an empty gate and people will go off on their own if they need anything whilst someone watches the bags.

Waterhorse Jun 11, 19 7:02 am


Originally Posted by alpha320 (Post 31191150)
Likely *full* use made of the autopilot - it does and will take a lot for the 747 fleet team to produce a safety case for this to go ahead. Pilots will likely be senior trainers.

I wouldn't be dogmatic about this but having done some of this sort of stuff in the past, admittedly 20 odd years ago, I very much doubt the full use of automation especially with the other aircraft in close formation. I cannot remember if the Jumbo has CWS in roll or not but that was the preferred method used, with Alt Hold as the pitch mode. This effectively prevented unexpected or unannounced turns with sharp turn commencement, a 9 ship around a big aircraft needs time and slow starts for any manoeuvre attempted, not least for the safety of the big aircraft, whose occupants do not have the Martin Baker let down system if it all goes wrong. Hand flying also mitigates against some of these things

alpha320 Jun 11, 19 2:19 pm


Originally Posted by Waterhorse (Post 31191516)
I wouldn't be dogmatic about this but having done some of this sort of stuff in the past, admittedly 20 odd years ago, I very much doubt the full use of automation especially with the other aircraft in close formation. I cannot remember if the Jumbo has CWS in roll or not but that was the preferred method used, with Alt Hold as the pitch mode. This effectively prevented unexpected or unannounced turns with sharp turn commencement, a 9 ship around a big aircraft needs time and slow starts for any manoeuvre attempted, not least for the safety of the big aircraft, whose occupants do not have the Martin Baker let down system if it all goes wrong. Hand flying also mitigates against some of these things

This is what I meant - making use of basic modes like Hdg/Alt and not just flying around with it all switched off.

icegirl Jun 11, 19 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by alpha320 (Post 31170713)
Not really. Flight and cabin crew 'bid' for the trips they want. As you can imagine, weekends off are very popular and the system is seniority based, so you won't have the best chance as a new entrant. Likewise, you can't do short-haul only, at the very least you'd need to do enough long haul trips to keep your certification current on that aircraft type.


Originally Posted by shefgab (Post 31190054)
If they know how to bid, then yes. "There and back" routes are generally not very popular with MF crew, unless you need to be home every night.

Thanks for your responses. Can you just be in that case be part time and hence not do a full 40 hours per week?

alpha320 Jun 11, 19 3:56 pm


Originally Posted by icegirl (Post 31192956)
Thanks for your responses. Can you just be in that case be part time and hence not do a full 40 hours per week?

Yes, lots of crew are part time, 50 or 75% - not sure if you can do this from the outset though.


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