Jan 1, 2019, 2:39 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
May 20, 2019, 4:31 am
#406
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
BA will take the times from when the first door warning light was illuminated, which is transmitted by ACARS. That might however, be a cargo door opening. Ask BA to clarify which door they are referring to. EU261 uses passenger door for reference.
May 20, 2019, 5:32 am
#407
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
Thanks, NWIFlyer.
We were given letters saying "your flight to London Heathrow has been cancelled" and the flight was also showing online (app, website MMB) as "cancelled", so I think BA would struggle to argue anything different.
(The BA letter referred to "severe damage" to the aircraft. As far as I can tell, G-STBL didn't leave Houston on 18 or 19 May either.)
(The BA letter referred to "severe damage" to the aircraft. As far as I can tell, G-STBL didn't leave Houston on 18 or 19 May either.)
May 23, 2019, 5:55 am
#408
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BA silver
Posts: 63
Hi - Can someone please confirm the delay reason and time of arrival of BA2673 from Amsterdam to gatwick yesterday, 22nd May?
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
May 23, 2019, 6:18 am
#409
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,140
Hi - Can someone please confirm the delay reason and time of arrival of BA2673 from Amsterdam to gatwick yesterday, 22nd May?
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
There is a list of Z codes but I can't see what ZY means but I'm sure someone will know, hopefully.
Here is the info from EF:
DOBA2763/22MAY
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA2763 -1 WE 22MAY19
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
AMS ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2214
LEFT THE GATE 2220
TOOK OFF 2230
DELAY ZY
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 2223 LGW
LGW AIRCRAFT LANDED 2213
ARRIVED 2220
May 23, 2019, 6:19 am
#410
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Silver
Posts: 175
This is 2763, which is (I assume) the flight you actually wanted:
Code:
DOBA2763/22MAY * OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA2763 -1 WE 22MAY19 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) AMS ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2214 LEFT THE GATE 2220 TOOK OFF 2230 DELAY ZY ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 2223 LGW LGW AIRCRAFT LANDED 2213 ARRIVED 2220 *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA2763 -1 WE 22MAY19 ASM APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL AMS 1905 WE JCDRI/M YB/G 320 1:15 HKMLVNOQSGX/G LGW 1920 WE 1:15 COMMENTS- 1.AMS LGW - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD 2.AMS LGW - ARRIVES TERMINAL S 3.AMS LGW - 9/ NON-SMOKING 4.AMS LGW - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE 5.AMS LGW - CO2/PAX* 60.45 KG ECO, 60.45 KG PRE (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR CONFIGURATION- 320 C 14 M 156 >
Looks like BA has 22:20 (i.e. exactly 3 hours late).
May 23, 2019, 8:21 am
#411
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London / Essex
Programs: BAEC: Gold Guest List
Posts: 66
Hi - Can someone please confirm the delay reason and time of arrival of BA2673 from Amsterdam to gatwick yesterday, 22nd May?
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
Doors were opened at 22:22 by my watch, which puts it 2 minutes over the three hour mark. We were told by BA through text & email that the flight had been delayed due to a technical fault developing during the inbound flight BA2762 taxiing at Gatwick before takeoff, that resulted in the plane being replaced and the passengers & baggage transferred.
It was a parking brake issue on G-MIDT. We got to the edge of the runway and the parking brakes locked on. After much faff they towed the aircraft with us all on board to a remote stand (this took about 2.5 to 3 hours!) and everyone got transferred to the new aircraft and a new crew was found as well (apart from 2 of us who gave up as our flights would have been pointless) and put onto G-GATM. The crew on the stranded original aircraft were fab actually.
May 23, 2019, 10:31 am
#412
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BA silver
Posts: 63
thank you both (and apologies for the typo on the flight number). google suggests ZY might just be late inbound plane, so i guess it depends what was coded for the 2762
May 23, 2019, 10:59 am
#413
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 10,140
ZA - ATC
ZC - CARGO
ZD - SECURITY
ZE - ENGINEERING
ZF - FLIGHT CREW
ZJ - INFORMATION MANAGEMENT (IT)
ZK - CABIN CREW
ZL - GROUND FLEET SERVICES
ZM - CATERING
ZO - OPERATIONS
ZP - PASSENGER SERVICES
ZR - RAMP
ZT - AIRPORT CENTRE
ZW - WEATHER
ZZ - AIRPORT AND AUTHORITIES.
Credit to Sigwx and more info here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27135203-post17.html
May 24, 2019, 7:18 am
#414
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
[...] our return journey from IAH was cancelled after the incoming plane was damaged.
The damage was caused, according to BA, by the jetbridge. Looking at broadly similar situations in FT threads, it still seems to me that damage of that kind, caused either by BA parking in the wrong place or (far more likely) someone they've contracted with steering the jetbridge badly, is something that should happen rarely but nevertheless falls into the category of "these things happen if you're running an airline". Before I reply to BA, can anyone help me with any specific cases I can refer to? Many thanks.
May 24, 2019, 7:34 am
#415
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Posts: 63,771
Following up from my post above from four days ago, BA has replied very quickly, but negatively: "your claim's been refused because BA0196 [...] was cancelled because of damaged caused to the aircraft, which resulted in it being unserviceable. [...] The cancellation was out of our control".
The damage was caused, according to BA, by the jetbridge. Looking at broadly similar situations in FT threads, it still seems to me that damage of that kind, caused either by BA parking in the wrong place or (far more likely) someone they've contracted with steering the jetbridge badly, is something that should happen rarely but nevertheless falls into the category of "these things happen if you're running an airline". Before I reply to BA, can anyone help me with any specific cases I can refer to? Many thanks.
The damage was caused, according to BA, by the jetbridge. Looking at broadly similar situations in FT threads, it still seems to me that damage of that kind, caused either by BA parking in the wrong place or (far more likely) someone they've contracted with steering the jetbridge badly, is something that should happen rarely but nevertheless falls into the category of "these things happen if you're running an airline". Before I reply to BA, can anyone help me with any specific cases I can refer to? Many thanks.
However, as regards a technical problem resulting from an airport’s set of mobile boarding stairs colliding with an aircraft, it should be pointed out that such mobile stairs or gangways are indispensable to air passenger transport, enabling passengers to enter or leave the aircraft, and, accordingly, air carriers are regularly faced with situations arising from their use. Therefore, a collision between an aircraft and any such set of mobile boarding stairs must be regarded as an event inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier. Furthermore, there is nothing to suggest that the damage suffered by the aircraft which was due to operate the flight at issue was caused by an act outside the category of normal airport services (such as an act of sabotage or terrorism) and would thus, applying the case-law of the Court (judgment in Wallentin-Hermann, EU:C:2008:771, paragraph 26), be covered by the term ‘extraordinary circumstances’, which is what Condor had to demonstrate before the referring court in accordance with the case-law cited in paragraph 17 above.
Consequently, such an event cannot be categorised as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight.
I wouldn't bother having a long conversation. By all means refer to Siewert in response to BA, but ask them to confirm that they won't be changing their minds - see my CEDR case upthread.
Consequently, such an event cannot be categorised as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight.
May 25, 2019, 1:24 am
#416
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
Many thanks, I'll get onto it next week and report back in due course.
May 28, 2019, 3:11 am
#417
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
Isn't it nice when you think you've got a fight on your hands and it turns out you don't? 
I got a very swift and very sensible reply from BA this morning: "I've checked the details of your journey again and I'm pleased to let you know that the decision was reviewed and [...] you're entitled to compensation for the cancellation of your flight".
So it's done and dusted and we're much happier than we would have been if it had taken weeks and cost us a lot more effort to get the same result. The compensation isn't some kind of bonus, either -- getting two people from Houston to Europe the day after both BA flights had been cancelled wasn't easy and cost money. 1,200 EUR goes a long way to making that right.
Thanks again, NWIFlyer and c-w-s.
I got a very swift and very sensible reply from BA this morning: "I've checked the details of your journey again and I'm pleased to let you know that the decision was reviewed and [...] you're entitled to compensation for the cancellation of your flight".
So it's done and dusted and we're much happier than we would have been if it had taken weeks and cost us a lot more effort to get the same result. The compensation isn't some kind of bonus, either -- getting two people from Houston to Europe the day after both BA flights had been cancelled wasn't easy and cost money. 1,200 EUR goes a long way to making that right.
Thanks again, NWIFlyer and c-w-s.
May 28, 2019, 5:08 am
#418
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Would you mind sharing, or perhaps paraphrasing, your reply to BA which then engendered the above response?
May 28, 2019, 8:08 am
#419
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berlin
Programs: BA Gold; Accor Plat; IHG Diamond-Amb; Meliá & HH & Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,450
Happy to:
For the sake of completeness, this was a cash booking in WTP and we are both 'plain vanilla' Gold members. It was our first EC 261 claim to BA.
BA's response on the ground on the day was very good, at least for passengers waiting in the F lounge, and now they've agreed that EC 261 compensation is due inside 10 days after the flight was due to land. ^ Maybe this is the new face of BA service recovery?
Originally Posted by IMH to BA
Dear BA Customer Relations
Many thanks for your prompt reply and apologies.
We are unable, however, to understand why BA is trying to refuse a valid claim for compensation in this case and on this occasion we are not prepared to let the matter rest.
It is quite clear that regulation 261/2004 applies to the cancellation of BA 196 on 17 May 2019. We would remind you of Case C 394/14. Sandy Siewert and Others v Condor Flugdienst GmbH. 14 November 2014. (Reference for a preliminary ruling - Rules of Procedure - Article 99 - Air transport - Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 - Long delay to a flight - Passengers´ right to compensation - Conditions exempting an air carrier from its obligation to pay compensation - Notion of `extraordinary circumstances´ - Aircraft damaged by a set of mobile boarding stairs.)
Please arrange for the compensation due to us, i.e. 600 EUR per passenger, to be paid without further delay to the account for which we provided details when making our claim.
Thank you.
Many thanks for your prompt reply and apologies.
We are unable, however, to understand why BA is trying to refuse a valid claim for compensation in this case and on this occasion we are not prepared to let the matter rest.
It is quite clear that regulation 261/2004 applies to the cancellation of BA 196 on 17 May 2019. We would remind you of Case C 394/14. Sandy Siewert and Others v Condor Flugdienst GmbH. 14 November 2014. (Reference for a preliminary ruling - Rules of Procedure - Article 99 - Air transport - Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 - Long delay to a flight - Passengers´ right to compensation - Conditions exempting an air carrier from its obligation to pay compensation - Notion of `extraordinary circumstances´ - Aircraft damaged by a set of mobile boarding stairs.)
Please arrange for the compensation due to us, i.e. 600 EUR per passenger, to be paid without further delay to the account for which we provided details when making our claim.
Thank you.
BA's response on the ground on the day was very good, at least for passengers waiting in the F lounge, and now they've agreed that EC 261 compensation is due inside 10 days after the flight was due to land. ^ Maybe this is the new face of BA service recovery?
May 28, 2019, 9:10 pm
#420
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 15
Eu261 Query
Hi FT Community,
I’m looking for some advice and guidance on what is hopefully not an uncommon situation and therefore well precedented.
I am mid trip and returning on BA9 from BKK to LHR this Sunday 2nd June originally with a connection on Sunday 2nd June to AMS where my trip originated.
Ive had notification via email of an itinerary change, the BA9 service has had a timing change meaning I cannot make the connection that day from LHR to AMS. I have been automatically booked onto a flight the next morning to AMS.
This throws a spanner in the works to some planned business meetings. That aside though I wanted to understand my position with EU261.
If I take the flight the next day which would obviously include overnight at LHR and a significant delay would I be eligible?
If I ask BA to cancel and refund this last leg due to it being an involuntary delay, would I be eligible for EU261?
Thanks for some help on this as I choose my best course of action.
Regards
I’m looking for some advice and guidance on what is hopefully not an uncommon situation and therefore well precedented.
I am mid trip and returning on BA9 from BKK to LHR this Sunday 2nd June originally with a connection on Sunday 2nd June to AMS where my trip originated.
Ive had notification via email of an itinerary change, the BA9 service has had a timing change meaning I cannot make the connection that day from LHR to AMS. I have been automatically booked onto a flight the next morning to AMS.
This throws a spanner in the works to some planned business meetings. That aside though I wanted to understand my position with EU261.
If I take the flight the next day which would obviously include overnight at LHR and a significant delay would I be eligible?
If I ask BA to cancel and refund this last leg due to it being an involuntary delay, would I be eligible for EU261?
Thanks for some help on this as I choose my best course of action.
Regards