Jan 1, 2019, 2:39 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Mar 11, 2019, 8:02 am
#241
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I haven't had sufficient coffee this morning to reliably check the maths but that seems about right on first glance. Just stick to what your claim firmly and go through the process. One advantage of going through MCOL is that you can charge the cash equivalent to Avios, but CEDR would be able to direct BA on the Avios question.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:06 am
#242
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
Thanks! I think the maths is mostly taken from a post you helpfully wrote me back in January, in fact.
Mar 11, 2019, 9:07 am
#243
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: DUB
Programs: BA Gold; AA LTG MM
Posts: 103
Though it is formally BA's responsibility to prove extraordinary circumstances + all reasonable steps, nevertheless given the weather yesterday I don't think that's going to be too difficult to prove. If it was late leaving VCE on a night stop I'm guessing it was held from departing Italy because of a reduced flow at LHR. You could argue that they should have used some other equipment instead, but the fact is that the weather led to hundreds of delayed aircraft yesterday.
Mar 11, 2019, 11:59 am
#244
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
I've now spoken to BA on the phone. Their position is that because we accepted the offer of the business class fare, it was a voluntary downgrade. In fact I did phone them from the plane when I saw that the app was offering me seats in J, and was told that there was no availability in F. I put this to them on the phone, and they said that I could have asked to be rebooked in F on the next date in which F was available, and since I accepted the next day in J, it's voluntary.
Is this a reasonable claim for them to make? If not, they told me on the phone that I need to write back to customer relations - presumably I could summarise this discussion, and at this point I should be giving them a deadline?
Is this a reasonable claim for them to make? If not, they told me on the phone that I need to write back to customer relations - presumably I could summarise this discussion, and at this point I should be giving them a deadline?
Mar 11, 2019, 12:06 pm
#245
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I've now spoken to BA on the phone. Their position is that because we accepted the offer of the business class fare, it was a voluntary downgrade. In fact I did phone them from the plane when I saw that the app was offering me seats in J, and was told that there was no availability in F. I put this to them on the phone, and they said that I could have asked to be rebooked in F on the next date in which F was available, and since I accepted the next day in J, it's voluntary.
What you need to do is see post 171 above, get BA to confirm their answer will not change, so that you can take the matter to CEDR/MCOL.
Mar 11, 2019, 12:16 pm
#246
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 452
Thanks - I'll do that. I have the screenshot from the BA asking me to "confirm you want the new flight we've booked for you", which was in AA J.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:42 am
#247
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 2
Welcome to Flyertalk Fergen, and a particular welcome to the BA forum, it's good that you've come out of lurker-life and joined us here.
I can't see the reason for the diversion, but I presume it was due to the weather last night. If so then you would not get any compensation since that is Extraordinary Circumstances, particularly if the flight crew had made a few attempts before the diversion. And from this map of your flight, I don't think it was from want of trying.
Now for the taxis, I think you were poorly advised here, if it happens again you best go over to the station to check, it's just outside the terminal door. BA.com says you arrived at 20:50 but the last train from Southend is at 23:14, there are 7 services after your arrival time. BA would normally expect you to take public transport here but they will pay up to £50 for taxi fares. Now under EC261 Right to Care provisions there is no such limit, so if there really were no train services last night and therefore taxi was your only option, that would be different, but it would still require a bit of a fight. If you were intending to take a taxi home anyway last night then maybe you're not too much out of pocket.
I can't see the reason for the diversion, but I presume it was due to the weather last night. If so then you would not get any compensation since that is Extraordinary Circumstances, particularly if the flight crew had made a few attempts before the diversion. And from this map of your flight, I don't think it was from want of trying.
Now for the taxis, I think you were poorly advised here, if it happens again you best go over to the station to check, it's just outside the terminal door. BA.com says you arrived at 20:50 but the last train from Southend is at 23:14, there are 7 services after your arrival time. BA would normally expect you to take public transport here but they will pay up to £50 for taxi fares. Now under EC261 Right to Care provisions there is no such limit, so if there really were no train services last night and therefore taxi was your only option, that would be different, but it would still require a bit of a fight. If you were intending to take a taxi home anyway last night then maybe you're not too much out of pocket.
Mar 15, 2019, 3:03 am
#248
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, Honors Gold
Posts: 227
BA 73 to AUH on 14/03 arrived about 3.5 hours late. The captain said in his welcome announcement that an initial delay was caused by the weather, then there was an aircraft swap, then a sensor needed to be replaced on the replacement aircraft. The final part of the delay was caused by the flight deck crew not arriving at the aircraft until almost all pax were onboard.
What chances of a successful claim?
What chances of a successful claim?
Mar 15, 2019, 5:34 am
#249
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BA 73 to AUH on 14/03 arrived about 3.5 hours late. The captain said in his welcome announcement that an initial delay was caused by the weather, then there was an aircraft swap, then a sensor needed to be replaced on the replacement aircraft. The final part of the delay was caused by the flight deck crew not arriving at the aircraft until almost all pax were onboard.
What chances of a successful claim?
What chances of a successful claim?
Indeed it looks like you were just over 3 hrs 30 minutes late, and the delay codes are ZO (operational) and ZY (rotational). The million dollar (or rather 600€) question is whether weather was more than 30 minutes of this, but that is for BA to prove. The rest looks to me to be purely under BA's control. So personally I'd work out an incisive claim wording, and follow very closely the steps and timetable in post 171 to manage it, since normally if there are multiple points of failure then the get-out clause is relied on.
Mar 15, 2019, 6:12 am
#250
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
Thanks for asking soon after the event since the dispatch information is still live in Expertflyer, see below.
Indeed it looks like you were just over 3 hrs 30 minutes late, and the delay codes are ZO (operational) and ZY (rotational). The million dollar (or rather 600€) question is whether weather was more than 30 minutes of this, but that is for BA to prove. The rest looks to me to be purely under BA's control. So personally I'd work out an incisive claim wording, and follow very closely the steps and timetable in post 171 to manage it, since normally if there are multiple points of failure then the get-out clause is relied on.
Indeed it looks like you were just over 3 hrs 30 minutes late, and the delay codes are ZO (operational) and ZY (rotational). The million dollar (or rather 600€) question is whether weather was more than 30 minutes of this, but that is for BA to prove. The rest looks to me to be purely under BA's control. So personally I'd work out an incisive claim wording, and follow very closely the steps and timetable in post 171 to manage it, since normally if there are multiple points of failure then the get-out clause is relied on.
Further delays then crept in but only after 2pm, consistent with the technical difficulties mattyw mentioned.
So from this perspective the delay looks fully on BA's side (e.g. late inbound + technical). It may well be that the initial delay to the BA188 from EWR was weather-related, but that is not a relevant element given BA's home base is LHR.
Mar 15, 2019, 7:56 am
#251
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 6
I used avios and companion voucher, the flight to caribbean was delayed over 4 hours for technical reason, and we received €600 per perrson compensation, 6 days after lodging the claim. Full marks to BA
Mar 16, 2019, 2:34 am
#252
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 14
My flight from PRG-LCY was cancelled on 12th March ( I now know due to weather) and I was rebooked on a flight to LHR, I was told I'd be able to speak to someone at Heathrow regarding a transfer to LCY. At Heathrow no one could help me and the call centre was closed. Being on the wrong side of London and with a few heavy suitcases I decided I to get a taxi to LCY as I was already running late and didn't want to lug the cases around on trains.
I've claimed with BA and received a partial refund for the taxi but not the whole amount.
I understand I'm probably not due compensation as the cancellation was due to weather but does EC261/2004 Article 8 section 3 still count in these circumstances?
"3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger."
Thanks
I've claimed with BA and received a partial refund for the taxi but not the whole amount.
I understand I'm probably not due compensation as the cancellation was due to weather but does EC261/2004 Article 8 section 3 still count in these circumstances?
"3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger."
Thanks
Mar 16, 2019, 3:32 am
#253
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I'm not sure what time this was, though presumably late, and what the amounts were. But generally BA pays £50 maximum for taxis, it takes the view that public transport should be used, and in this case it often would be quicker than a taxi. Both the trains and tubes are modified to handle luggage and if it was late that would be an issue anyway. So the reasonableness test you need to apply here is what the time was and any other circumstances (e.g. disability) which would perhaps make a taxi the only sensible option. If you are able to consrtruct that case, then my first suggestion is to call BA Customer Relations in the afternoon (UK office hours) to see whether you can sweet talk them to fill the difference. In the recent past this has worked. If it doesn't then stick to your guns, follow the example of post 171 avoiding superfluous discussion, and ask for the "our answer will not change" reply.
Mar 18, 2019, 12:29 am
#254
Join Date: Mar 2019
Programs: BA
Posts: 40
Greetings
was on BA67 on 17th March. Landed 3h and 9 minutes late and doors opened around 3h 25 late.
We got to gate B44 and we started to board on time at 16:00. However, the plane at B44. (B747) had an issue and we had to go downstairs to the tarmac and take a bus to another 747. We were held on the bus for 45 minutes and eventually were allowed on the plane and I got to my J seat at 17:00 approx. At this point the weather turned and started to hail stone. They inspected if we need to de ice, and we didn’t, and push back was 18:40 and we took off around 19:45 after a long taxi.
The original cause of the delay was having to change aircraft and they had to clean the new one when we were held on a cramped bus. The delay was extended by the weather and congestion.
Based on this, do I have grounds to claim? Will BA blame most the delay on the weather? I’m convinced if we got on the original flight we wouldn’t have been over 3h late, maybe half that at most. Worst J flight I’ve had. Quite unacceptable to cram a bus full of group 1 and 2 and leave us on the tarmac for 45 minutes - we only found out limited info from the driver.
thanks!
was on BA67 on 17th March. Landed 3h and 9 minutes late and doors opened around 3h 25 late.
We got to gate B44 and we started to board on time at 16:00. However, the plane at B44. (B747) had an issue and we had to go downstairs to the tarmac and take a bus to another 747. We were held on the bus for 45 minutes and eventually were allowed on the plane and I got to my J seat at 17:00 approx. At this point the weather turned and started to hail stone. They inspected if we need to de ice, and we didn’t, and push back was 18:40 and we took off around 19:45 after a long taxi.
The original cause of the delay was having to change aircraft and they had to clean the new one when we were held on a cramped bus. The delay was extended by the weather and congestion.
Based on this, do I have grounds to claim? Will BA blame most the delay on the weather? I’m convinced if we got on the original flight we wouldn’t have been over 3h late, maybe half that at most. Worst J flight I’ve had. Quite unacceptable to cram a bus full of group 1 and 2 and leave us on the tarmac for 45 minutes - we only found out limited info from the driver.
thanks!
Mar 18, 2019, 3:50 am
#255
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Based on this, do I have grounds to claim? Will BA blame most the delay on the weather? I’m convinced if we got on the original flight we wouldn’t have been over 3h late, maybe half that at most. Worst J flight I’ve had. Quite unacceptable to cram a bus full of group 1 and 2 and leave us on the tarmac for 45 minutes - we only found out limited info from the driver.
You are correct that BA are unlikely to agree to this, arguing that more than 25 minutes is due to weather / ATC, and that may be plausible. However you also have a point that the extra delays were caused by fundamentally an aircraft going tech - and I also think you have a plausible line on "all reasonable steps". So you need to look at post 171 for how to handle, and you just need to line your ducks in a row.
In that respect, you will find the following useful.