Jan 1, 2019, 2:39 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Feb 14, 2019, 4:40 am
#181
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
You completely have a case. If you look at Uber prices EDI-ABZ they are quoting 163 to 218 for UberX and 250-333 for an XL
Add to this the fact that:
- Uber does not operate out of ABZ area, the local taxis are likely to be in the same or higher price range
- the last minute nature of your need and the off-peak hour of your call
then the price you paid seems fine.
BA does not normally pay for taxis over Ł50 where there was a public transport available, I suspect here they failed to look at the specifics of your case.
How much are they offering?
For now, I would go back to them using their webform, showing a couple of fares comparisons, and reminding them the only reason you took this is because the exact same taxi they had offered to you failed to materialise, and there was no public transport option. Keep it brief and to the point, there is never a need for recorded delivery or letters with them, and no need for MCOL yet in my view.
Add to this the fact that:
- Uber does not operate out of ABZ area, the local taxis are likely to be in the same or higher price range
- the last minute nature of your need and the off-peak hour of your call
then the price you paid seems fine.
BA does not normally pay for taxis over Ł50 where there was a public transport available, I suspect here they failed to look at the specifics of your case.
How much are they offering?
For now, I would go back to them using their webform, showing a couple of fares comparisons, and reminding them the only reason you took this is because the exact same taxi they had offered to you failed to materialise, and there was no public transport option. Keep it brief and to the point, there is never a need for recorded delivery or letters with them, and no need for MCOL yet in my view.
Feb 14, 2019, 5:24 am
#182
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,769
My advice would be to construct the very shortest possible reply to Customer Relations pointing out the requirement of EC261/2004 Article 8.3 (don't spell it out for them) and asking whether this is their final position? If so can they confirm that in order for you to take the matter to CEDR. Then follow the process but again stick to a very short submission based on 8.3 - no need to go into what was promised / didn't happen / should have happened. It's strict liability here.
Feb 14, 2019, 5:56 am
#183
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 65
You completely have a case. If you look at Uber prices EDI-ABZ they are quoting 163 to 218 for UberX and 250-333 for an XL
Add to this the fact that:
- Uber does not operate out of ABZ area, the local taxis are likely to be in the same or higher price range
- the last minute nature of your need and the off-peak hour of your call
then the price you paid seems fine.
BA does not normally pay for taxis over Ł50 where there was a public transport available, I suspect here they failed to look at the specifics of your case.
How much are they offering?
For now, I would go back to them using their webform, showing a couple of fares comparisons, and reminding them the only reason you took this is because the exact same taxi they had offered to you failed to materialise, and there was no public transport option. Keep it brief and to the point, there is never a need for recorded delivery or letters with them, and no need for MCOL yet in my view.
Add to this the fact that:
- Uber does not operate out of ABZ area, the local taxis are likely to be in the same or higher price range
- the last minute nature of your need and the off-peak hour of your call
then the price you paid seems fine.
BA does not normally pay for taxis over Ł50 where there was a public transport available, I suspect here they failed to look at the specifics of your case.
How much are they offering?
For now, I would go back to them using their webform, showing a couple of fares comparisons, and reminding them the only reason you took this is because the exact same taxi they had offered to you failed to materialise, and there was no public transport option. Keep it brief and to the point, there is never a need for recorded delivery or letters with them, and no need for MCOL yet in my view.
Feb 14, 2019, 5:56 am
#184
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 65
My advice would be to construct the very shortest possible reply to Customer Relations pointing out the requirement of EC261/2004 Article 8.3 (don't spell it out for them) and asking whether this is their final position? If so can they confirm that in order for you to take the matter to CEDR. Then follow the process but again stick to a very short submission based on 8.3 - no need to go into what was promised / didn't happen / should have happened. It's strict liability here.
I will get back to them with that response and go to CEDR if needed.
Feb 17, 2019, 5:23 am
#185
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Executive Club Gold
Posts: 176
A bit of advice please.
- Booked on the BA2709 BCN to LGW in CE on 22 March 2019 departing at 2020. Checked MMB and found the flight has been cancelled. This is the return leg of a booking under the IB codeshare on 075 IB ticket stock. I stupidly made the booking through ebookers.com as the IB site kept coming up with payment card errors.
- Called ebookers and getting frustrated with the Indian call centre who keep putting me on hold and then promising a call back which never happens.
- Emailed ebookers and requested an alternative BA flight to LHR the following day, as I can't leave BCN any earlier the same day and there are no later LHR flights. BA2709 to LGW is also cancelled on 23 March.
- Ebookers now say they are "reaching out to the airline" and will contact me when they have an update. They say they are unable to reroute me until the airline offers them alternative flights.
Feb 17, 2019, 5:40 am
#186
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,769
- Ebookers now say they are "reaching out to the airline" and will contact me when they have an update. They say they are unable to reroute me until the airline offers them alternative flights.
The hotel issue is a grey area and there are 2 arguments. Clearly if you turned up at the airport without a resolved reservation, then the airline is on the hook for Right of Care accommodation. But if you negotiate a different arrangement with ebookers / Iberia which takes you to another day, it can be argued that you agreed to this changed reservation, worts and all. Under 2 weeks before travel would be different, as you indicate. The safest thing would be to take the LHR service, which only leaves an hour earlier than your booking, or look to your travel insurance.
The other alternative, seeing that it is a cancelled flight, is to ask for a full refund from ebookers, and use the money to travel on (e.g.) the easyJet services at 19:40 to LGW (Ł50); or to LTN at 20:50 (Ł42). or to SEN at 21:35 (Ł36).
Feb 17, 2019, 6:12 am
#187
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,605
Feb 17, 2019, 6:18 am
#188
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Executive Club Gold
Posts: 176
The "reaching out" is a load of rubbish: once a flight is cancelled ebookers should have no problems rebooking you on to alternative services. Admittedly the IB ticket won't help one little bit, and this is a very good example why using OTA really ought to be avoided. They should offer you the 19:00 hrs departure to LHR - currently wide open - or indeed any of the 20 odd options for the next day.
The hotel issue is a grey area and there are 2 arguments. Clearly if you turned up at the airport without a resolved reservation, then the airline is on the hook for Right of Care accommodation. But if you negotiate a different arrangement with ebookers / Iberia which takes you to another day, it can be argued that you agreed to this changed reservation, worts and all. Under 2 weeks before travel would be different, as you indicate. The safest thing would be to take the LHR service, which only leaves an hour earlier than your booking, or look to your travel insurance.
The other alternative, seeing that it is a cancelled flight, is to ask for a full refund from ebookers, and use the money to travel on (e.g.) the easyJet services at 19:40 to LGW (Ł50); or to LTN at 20:50 (Ł42). or to SEN at 21:35 (Ł36).
The hotel issue is a grey area and there are 2 arguments. Clearly if you turned up at the airport without a resolved reservation, then the airline is on the hook for Right of Care accommodation. But if you negotiate a different arrangement with ebookers / Iberia which takes you to another day, it can be argued that you agreed to this changed reservation, worts and all. Under 2 weeks before travel would be different, as you indicate. The safest thing would be to take the LHR service, which only leaves an hour earlier than your booking, or look to your travel insurance.
The other alternative, seeing that it is a cancelled flight, is to ask for a full refund from ebookers, and use the money to travel on (e.g.) the easyJet services at 19:40 to LGW (Ł50); or to LTN at 20:50 (Ł42). or to SEN at 21:35 (Ł36).
I also thought the "reaching out" bit is rubbish and have said as much to them when I requested an alternative BA LHR service the next day. Ideally I'd take the 1900 LHR service the same day, but my plans were already tight with the 2020 flight and doubt I would make it.
I'll push for the accommodation under Right of Care and see what happens.
Feb 18, 2019, 1:06 am
#189
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gatwick, UK
Programs: UA *G, BA Silver
Posts: 1,673
I can't recall an exact parallel here but this seems an inherent technical failure activity rather than exceptional circumstances, unless someone has been scattering tacks on the LAX runway. It doesn't seem much different to (e.g.) a cargo door not shutting properly. But I don't say that with a lot of confidence, it was pretty unlucky however you look at it.
Your claim’s been refused because BA0268 on 11th February was delayed because of aircraft damage which wasn’t caused by us which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Your flight was delayed as 4 tyres on the aircraft required changing following low pressure warning on taxi-out, this was caused by unknown foreign objects on the taxi-way. This caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.
We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
Your flight was delayed as 4 tyres on the aircraft required changing following low pressure warning on taxi-out, this was caused by unknown foreign objects on the taxi-way. This caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.
We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and we always consider if there are any operational options available before we make a decision. We’re very sorry the delay was necessary in this case.
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?
They did pay for my hotel overnight though.
Feb 18, 2019, 1:15 am
#190
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,246
......
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated....
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?....
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated....
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?....
Last edited by FlyerTalker39574; Feb 18, 2019 at 11:46 am
Feb 18, 2019, 1:18 am
#191
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,769
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated. But I somehow doubt it is that straightforward - someone here probably has a better idea than me.
You're not going to get BA to change this position. You could try CEDR or MCOL but since BA's explanation seems to tie in with what you observed on the day I don't think this is a strong case.
Feb 18, 2019, 4:39 am
#192
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 68
BA response was a rejection of the claim saying
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated. But I somehow doubt it is that straightforward - someone here probably has a better idea than me.
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?
They did pay for my hotel overnight though.
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated. But I somehow doubt it is that straightforward - someone here probably has a better idea than me.
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?
They did pay for my hotel overnight though.
BA used this excuse against my claim back in October as the cargo door was damaged. They said ‘Not my fault guvnor’ as usual, thankfully CEDR disagrees and they paid out
Feb 18, 2019, 11:15 am
#193
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Berlin
Posts: 1,533
BA have cancelled my flight next month. They’ve put me on an earlier service. They’ve not notified me of the cancellation. I have, however, received an email from BA notifying me of a seat change. It was only when I checked MMB that I saw the flight has changed. In fact, the original flight is still showing in my App - even after refreshing the page. It’s only when I clock through do I see the new flight details.
Do BA have to notify me of the change? What are the consequences to BA, under the Regulation, if they don’t notify me?
Palmer
Do BA have to notify me of the change? What are the consequences to BA, under the Regulation, if they don’t notify me?
Palmer
Feb 18, 2019, 11:39 am
#194
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
BA response was a rejection of the claim saying
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated. But I somehow doubt it is that straightforward - someone here probably has a better idea than me.
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?
They did pay for my hotel overnight though.
I find this interesting because I've not heard of the 'aircraft damage that wasn't caused by us' excuse before. It sounds very convincing and it is very categorically stated. But I somehow doubt it is that straightforward - someone here probably has a better idea than me.
The question is should I reply and push back - and if so on what basis? - or should I just accept this answer?
They did pay for my hotel overnight though.
Feb 18, 2019, 12:25 pm
#195
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 251
Hi,
I wanted to confirm my understanding for a claim I'm currently making. My flight from London City was cancelled with 9 hours' notice, and I was re-routed on a flight from Heathrow.
The new flight was scheduled to arrive 1hr45 after the original flight. The new flight actually arrived 22 mins late, and so 2 hrs 7 minutes late in total vs the my original booking.
BA are saying this is EUR125 compensation at the reduced rate. My view is it should be EUR 250 as greater than two hour delay. The specific rationale given for using the reduced rate is that the regulation stipulates using the scheduled arrival time of the new flight, not the actual arrival time.
Grateful for any thoughts regarding the correct approach.
It occurs to me their next step might be to argue about the cause of the 22 minute delay to the new flight. Would that have have any mileage for them?
On a positive note, I asked at the time of rebooking if they would cover taxi to Heathrow and they said no problem just send in a receipt.
Many thanks
I wanted to confirm my understanding for a claim I'm currently making. My flight from London City was cancelled with 9 hours' notice, and I was re-routed on a flight from Heathrow.
The new flight was scheduled to arrive 1hr45 after the original flight. The new flight actually arrived 22 mins late, and so 2 hrs 7 minutes late in total vs the my original booking.
BA are saying this is EUR125 compensation at the reduced rate. My view is it should be EUR 250 as greater than two hour delay. The specific rationale given for using the reduced rate is that the regulation stipulates using the scheduled arrival time of the new flight, not the actual arrival time.
Grateful for any thoughts regarding the correct approach.
It occurs to me their next step might be to argue about the cause of the 22 minute delay to the new flight. Would that have have any mileage for them?
On a positive note, I asked at the time of rebooking if they would cover taxi to Heathrow and they said no problem just send in a receipt.
Many thanks