Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

    Hide Wikipost
Old Sep 11, 19, 4:25 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Print Wikipost

Old Jul 26, 19, 2:26 pm
  #631  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by ng1265 View Post
BA flight goes tech and is more than 4 hours delayed. Are both assumptions correct?
->AC would not compensate for anything
-> BA would be liable for EU261, not AC
In terms of EC261, you are correct. I don't know whether Air Canada has some customer service remedy for their part in this, but judging from their forum, I suspect not. For BA, they can only avoid EC261 if the ticket was completely free of charge, in reality they would be getting some sort of payment via the original AC ticket.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 27, 19, 12:21 pm
  #632  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NCL
Programs: BAEC and Hilton mostly
Posts: 274
Sector cancelled, downgrade on replacement?

I'm not claiming for a delay, as the replacement got the wheels back on the bus of my PHX run, but it did involve a downgrade, and I'm asking the board experts for advice.

22/7 PHX-PHL (BA5653/AA460) was cancelled by AA while in the lounge. No feasible way to connect to PHL-LHR BA68, but AA could put me on PHX-LHR (AA194) to connect with LHR-OTP BA886 on 23/7 - only in PE, though. So I lost out on 'First' for PHX-PHL and CW for PHL-LHR - is there any chance of a refund for the downgrade? BA ticketed - I've already emailed them for ORC.

Thanks, all!
Tocsin is offline  
Old Jul 27, 19, 12:33 pm
  #633  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: near Heathrow
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL (OWE), SA LifePlat (*G), BD Gold to the end, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,913
Correct that it's not EC261 related as cancellation related to AA in US.
No experience of this but I would think it's ORC or the downgrade refund?
I can't see getting First and CW TPs and avios for a PE fare can be right?
If it does work that's a great result and a good data point. Let us know.
gcuk is online now  
Old Jul 27, 19, 12:51 pm
  #634  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NCL
Programs: BAEC and Hilton mostly
Posts: 274
Well, the PE was about equivalent to AA domestic 'First', but nothing like Club World for getting a night's sleep I'm planning on getting the ORC sorted before making any other claim (if I want to make any other claim...), but all advice very welcome, and I'll certainly report back.
Tocsin is offline  
Old Jul 27, 19, 1:01 pm
  #635  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by Tocsin View Post
Well, the PE was about equivalent to AA domestic 'First', but nothing like Club World for getting a night's sleep I'm planning on getting the ORC sorted before making any other claim (if I want to make any other claim...), but all advice very welcome, and I'll certainly report back.
I can only confirm that this looks like the operating carrier behind this was AA, and that unless leaving Europe, this then leaves you outside the remit of EC261. Therefore the only way to handle this is to if necessary go on a later set of flights to avoid the downgrade. I guess there would have been the option to get rebooked by AA to a BA gateway, and then make it BA's responsibility to sort out the rest of the booking, but even that is clutching at straws. I don't think you would necessarily get the original TPs/ Avios unless it was BA marketed, but of course you should certainly apply for that. On the other hand AA does have a swift remediation process for downgrades, involving travel vouchers, but I believe you have to start with the ticketing airline in the first instance - if that is BA then they'll pass it directly to AA.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 27, 19, 1:10 pm
  #636  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: NCL
Programs: BAEC and Hilton mostly
Posts: 274
Thanks, c-w-s - the overall marketing/ ticketing was BA, so I'm hopeful about an ORC claim at least. I wasn't sure how the combination of AA (PHX-PHL) and BA (PHL-LHR) operated flights would affect things, but the initial spoke in the wheel was definitely from AA! I did mention the downgrade in my initial email to BA, but concentrated on a request for ORC - including a cheeky extra for the centenary bonus avios - no harm in asking
Tocsin is offline  
Old Jul 27, 19, 11:43 pm
  #637  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,836
Miss Tafflyer was caught up on the carnage from last Friday when booked from MUC to MIA. The original Avios one-way booking was MUC (ET) LHR (CW) MIA for 4500 and 75000 Avios respectively on a single PNR and ticket.

The MUC-LHR was cancelled on the morning of the flight. No email, no text, no phone call but we heard about potential problems and luckily checked.

Earliest CW seat 3 days later on Monday. Premium via MAD offered on IB, take it or leave it.

Flight taken was MUC (Y) MAD (W/PE) MIA. Departure and arrival
times both within an hour of the originally booked times so only the downgrade to be processed. The rebooking was made in revenue Y and W booking classes, though as yet no Avios have been credited which is what I would expect.

I think what must be due is 75% downgrade reimbursement of the 75000 Avios charged for LHR-MIA plus 75% of the 206 carrier surcharge paid. Is that correct?

The agent on the phone rebooking told Miss Tafflyer that she would receive 250 and 600 compensation which is obviously incorrect and I am shocked about that. Cancellation code: WEAN so not eligible for article 7 comp for sure.
Tafflyer is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 2:47 am
  #638  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post
I think what must be due is 75% downgrade reimbursement of the 75000 Avios charged for LHR-MIA plus 75% of the 206 carrier surcharge paid. Is that correct?

The agent on the phone rebooking told Miss Tafflyer that she would receive 250 and 600 compensation which is obviously incorrect and I am shocked about that. Cancellation code: WEAN so not eligible for article 7 comp for sure.
Yes, this is clearly weather + radar so I can't see Article 7 being payable, whereas Article 10 for downgrading would apply. The Avios amount is correct, the cash component is indeed the carrier surcharge, plus anything else which is class of travel related, not that there should be such on that routing, but hypothetically APD between economy and non economy cabins. However just do a check on IB's carrier surcharge for this trip. The reason being that BA may well process this as an involuntary fare refund, which is based on the delta between the cabins concerned (and may, or may not, use Iberia's figures). Sometimes this is a better deal for the passenger - I doubt it in this case though I haven't had enough coffee yet to do the maths - and sometimes it's close enough not to be worth arguing about. But you have the approximate calculation already (56k Avios, 150) so when the figure eventually gets paid you know whether to escalate. In this case, I would actually put those figures into the claim, allow with the specific reference to Article 10. And put a note in your diary for say 2 months hence to see what happens, they may well just slip it into your accounts without an email.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 8:31 am
  #639  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Boston, USA
Programs: AA Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 190
Question about the mechanics of making a claim. My wife and I were due to fly WAW-LHR-BOS today on the 11:50 departure from Warsaw. This was cancelled, with code "FCRY", and we're rebooked tomorrow - so looks like we are good to go for 600 each.

We are each on separate reservations. Should we file separate claims? The BA site indicates I could file for her if I have a "signed letter of authority" but I would think it's just easier to push all the buttons twice.
scolbath is offline  
Old Jul 28, 19, 12:48 pm
  #640  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 16
Hi
My flight BA2775 JER-LGW was cancelled yesterday. It was due to depart at 1710 local but was delayed in stages to 2125 and then cancelled at around 1830 local. I was tracking the aircraft on flightradar24 and, as the airframe was at Gatwick pretty much on time from its previous trip, I was pretty sure it was a crew issue. Expert flyer below shows the flight as cancelled but suggests this was done at 1228, am I reading this correctly?
Comments:
DOBA2775/27JUL
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA2775 -1 SA 27JUL19
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

JER ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2125
FLIGHT CANCELLED 1228
CREW
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 2222 LGW
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA2775 -1 SA 27JUL19
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
JER 1710 SA JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:05
HKMLVNOQSGX/G
LGW 1815 SA 1:05
COMMENTS-
1.JER LGW - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
2.JER LGW - ARRIVES TERMINAL S
3.JER LGW - 9/ NON-SMOKING
4.JER LGW - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
5.JER LGW - CO2/PAX* 53.23 KG ECO, 53.23 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
319 C 24 M 108
>
PO48RA is offline  
Old Jul 28, 19, 12:53 pm
  #641  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by scolbath View Post
We are each on separate reservations. Should we file separate claims? The BA site indicates I could file for her if I have a "signed letter of authority" but I would think it's just easier to push all the buttons twice.
If you have a shared surname then you could do it as one claim, but personally I wouldn't risk the potential hassle. Do your one claim under your name; get your wife to claim under her name, two payments but I don't you will care too much about that. FCRY is Flight Crew - Yes to EC261 as you imply. Just (a) cut and paste common data via a text file, and do a screen shot of the main details, you won't see them again after Submit.
scolbath likes this.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 1:02 pm
  #642  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 434
Re the report in post 640 above, would some kind member be able to post one for the following 2 flights both of which I spent many hours in on the tarmac !!!

24/7/2019 BA363 LYS-LHR which was much delayed with tech problems before being cancelled on 25/7
25/7/2017 BA733 GVA-LHR also much delayed with tech problems before being cancelled on 26/7

Thanks in advance
wytco0 is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 1:22 pm
  #643  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by PO48RA View Post
Hi
Expert flyer below shows the flight as cancelled but suggests this was done at 1228, am I reading this correctly?
Yes, I think we established that for some reason Expertflyer is out by exactly 4 hrs 30 minutes with its time stamp, so as if it is reporting the time in India. So deduct 4.5 hours and it makes more sense. A crew cancellation would be open to Article 7 compensation when departing London, and often when departing from outstations. I've not checked but I am presuming the flight was also cancelled on the previous LGW-JER sector, and therefore I would expect Article 7 to be paid.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 1:27 pm
  #644  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 39,942
Originally Posted by wytco0 View Post
24/7/2019 BA363 LYS-LHR which was much delayed with tech problems before being cancelled on 25/7
25/7/2017 BA733 GVA-LHR also much delayed with tech problems before being cancelled on 26/7
As mentioned up thread, unfortunately you need to ask within the first 48 hours, or the information ceases to be visible. Both flights now don't have the detailed dispatch notes. However it's not essential to do any of this - if it was technical then you can say that in your application, BA will check it at their end and mostly they would agree. The only difficulty in this space is when there are multiple causes, when EF would be helpful, but hopefully you won't hit this problem.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Jul 28, 19, 1:41 pm
  #645  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Yes, I think we established that for some reason Expertflyer is out by exactly 4 hrs 30 minutes with its time stamp, so as if it is reporting the time in India. So deduct 4.5 hours and it makes more sense. A crew cancellation would be open to Article 7 compensation when departing London, and often when departing from outstations. I've not checked but I am presuming the flight was also cancelled on the previous LGW-JER sector, and therefore I would expect Article 7 to be paid.
Thank you, so would I assume that 1228 is actually 0028 the next day in India and so the flight was cancelled at 1958 local?

On a separate topic, BA have already said I will qualify for EU compensation, which is good, they have offered 250 Euros or 400 Euros in travel vouchers, what is the thinking on accepting the travel vouchers? Any experience on the limitations etc.?

So far, I'm very impressed with how BA have handled the whole thing, possibly my Gold card coming into its own.
PO48RA is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread