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The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

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Old Dec 31, 18, 6:48 pm   -   Wikipost
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Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 4:11 am
  #256  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
It's not good to have a bus crammed like that, but to BA's credit, this is often the fastest way of switching aircraft, particularly a large one such as a 747. If you take people up the airbridge someone simply won't make it to another gate, even if it stayed in T5B. If it was T5C it becomes impossible. You then have to reshuffle all the baggage so that passengers and baggage are reconciled.

You are correct that BA are unlikely to agree to this, arguing that more than 25 minutes is due to weather / ATC, and that may be plausible. However you also have a point that the extra delays were caused by fundamentally an aircraft going tech - and I also think you have a plausible line on "all reasonable steps". So you need to look at post 171 for how to handle, and you just need to line your ducks in a row.

In that respect, you will find the following useful.
Thank you, Sir. Great to see you were able to pull official times, I was trying to remember them and it seems I got them just about spot on! I took a picture of my IFE screen after the 3 hour mark just incase!

Yes I fully accept that 2 hours of the delay might not have directly been BAs fault, I use might because Iím not an expert if they could have do anything. I do know they were still refuling the plane when we got on board (1 hour late) because we were repeatedly reminded to keep our seatbelts undone. Iíd guess this was resolved at around 17:30 - 17:45 when we were also informed we wonít need to de ice.

i understand about busses being faster than changing gates, I just donít see why they had to bus us when the flight wasnít ready to board leaving us sat starting at the aircraft like sardines. Why not delay boarding by 30 minutes and leave us in the lounge/at the gate? Iíd be quite happy to walk around B terminal and look at duty free and stuff for half an hour! Iím sure frequent flyers take these issues like water off a ducks back!

Back to my claim, should I attach the picture you sent? Is there somewhere in that code that says the issue was mechanical or are they blaming it on weather (or both if we are honest). Also; do you recommend using resolver? A colleague mentioned it helped them claim

Thanks again! Apologies for any grammatical mistakes - sending from a groggy Mikkelís phone!
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Old Mar 18, 19, 4:19 am
  #257  
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Originally Posted by MikkelErikson View Post

Iíd be quite happy to walk around B terminal and look at duty free and stuff for half an hour! Iím sure frequent flyers take these issues like water off a ducks back!

Back to my claim, should I attach the picture you sent? Is there somewhere in that code that says the issue was mechanical or are they blaming it on weather (or both if we are honest). Also; do you recommend using resolver? A colleague mentioned it helped them claim

Thanks again! Apologies for any grammatical mistakes - sending from a groggy Mikkelís phone!
As I say, in the real world as soon as you take people off via the airbridge, you lose them. About a third of passengers have some sort of fear of flying, mostly very moderate, but on a 747 it just takes a few people not to report back to the new flight and all the baggage and cargo has to be recompiled from scratch. That can take over an hour. In the USA this isn't an issue, since they allow baggage to be non-reconciled.

Yes, use the image above, and use post 171 as your template. ZO is operational (a real catch-all though), ZW is weather. I don't recommend Resolver, since if you look at 171 you will see it's faster not to use that process. Moreover Resolver doesn't dovetail very easily into CEDR, it's more for MCOL.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 4:25 am
  #258  
 
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Thank you - Iíll submit a claim and let you know how I get on. Thanks again for helping me out!
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Old Mar 18, 19, 1:25 pm
  #259  
 
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Hi,

Just had my claim for compensation under EU261 rejected by BA. BA1421 BHD-LHR last Tuesday (12 March) was cancelled. Thankfully I wasn't traveling over to London for a flying duty. The incoming aircraft (BA1420) suffered a lightening strike on approach and needed checked. The captain came into the lounge and stated it should take around 2 hours to do so and that BHD had agreed to extend its curfew. Just before 9pm he came back to advise that the engineer needed to check the roof of the aircraft and to do so, the engineer had to use a cherry picker, but due to high winds he was unable to do so. By this stage the night stopping aircraft had arrived and the captain went onto explain that he had asked the company if the crew could operate that aircraft, however he was told no and the flight was cancelled. BA have stated the flight was damaged outside of their control no I am not eligible for compensation.

Just as a FYI I was rebooked (like a lot of the other passengers) on the BA1431 on 13 March - it suffered a catalogue of failures, inoperative APU, ground power unit failure, broken toilets, then allowing HBO passengers off and a slot delay. Instead of departing at 07.10 and arriving into LHR at 08.35 we departed at 10.00am and arrived at 11.15am.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 1:38 pm
  #260  
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Originally Posted by bhdcommuter View Post
By this stage the night stopping aircraft had arrived and the captain went onto explain that he had asked the company if the crew could operate that aircraft, however he was told no and the flight was cancelled. BA have stated the flight was damaged outside of their control no I am not eligible for compensation.
This is not an easy one to call, for most posts here I can generally make a reasonable judgement, this one - well what a catalogue of problems! I tend to feel you do not have a claim here.

Lightning strikes can be Extraordinary Circumstances, but to save a huge amount of typing when my next flight is about to be called I will just say that the key and definite part of that is that "all reasonable steps" certainly applies. Looking at your list, for the night departure, I'm not clear what more BA could have done to get this flight off the ground in the circumstances. Of course you can give it a go via CEDR, personally I doubt that I would do so.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 3:01 pm
  #261  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Here are the dispatch details

DOBA3280/10MAR
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA3280 -1 SU 10MAR19
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)

FLR ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2140
DELAY ZO
LEFT THE GATE 2144
TOOK OFF 2154
ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL 2257 LCY
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA3280 -1 SU 10MAR19 ASM
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
FLR 2000 SU JCDRI/M YB/S E90 2:10
HKMLVNOQSGX/S
LCY 2110 SU 2:10
COMMENTS-
1.FLR LCY - AIRCRAFT OWNER BA CITYFLYER
2.FLR LCY - COCKPIT CREW BA CITYFLYER
3.FLR LCY - CABIN CREW BA CITYFLYER
4.FLR LCY - OPERATED BY BA CITYFLYER
5.FLR LCY - 9/ NON-SMOKING
6.FLR LCY - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
7.FLR LCY - CO2/PAX* 161.15 KG ECO, 161.15 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
E90 C 22 M 76

So a LCY arrival of 21:10 hrs became a STN arrival of 23:08, and I suppose it's a 40 minute taxi between the two airports. Personally I don't think this is going anywhere in terms of compensation, just Right to Care, and presumably since the taxi was to the OPs home rather than LCY there was some upside to that. The slowness to doors open runs it close, so maybe the OP could give it a go, but this is not the most robust case I've seen in this thread.
Just to update everyone, submitted a claim on Saturday and was approved by Monday, compensation plus taxi fare. Have to say I am surprised it was so easy!
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Old Mar 18, 19, 3:08 pm
  #262  
 
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Just to keep things updated, my claim (over the 6 hour delay due to 4 wheels being changed on an A380 on the tarmac at LAX - the 9pm LAX-LHR flight) looks to be heading towards court proceedings as BA have not responded to the lawyers. They say that I should expect a valid defence from BA or compensation in 6-8 weeks.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 5:17 pm
  #263  
 
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I’d be grateful for some help.

I was on the BA831 DUB-LHR on 12 Mar. It landed at 1146 instead of 0840.

The reason was some problem with the engine cover. Unfortunately I missed the captain’s talk at the gate and he didn’t explain after boarding. I think a piece needed to be brought from London on the first arrival and then fitted and signed off.

I was connecting to ATH and after rebooking, I arrived five hours late.

Would this qualify?
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Old Mar 18, 19, 5:19 pm
  #264  
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Originally Posted by Davidjonesk View Post
I was connecting to ATH and after rebooking, I arrived five hours late.

Would this qualify?
From what you have said yes, that sounds like a technical failure on the BA side, combined by not having full engineering options in DUB. So that looks a valid case for Article 7 to me.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 5:28 pm
  #265  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
From what you have said yes, that sounds like a technical failure on the BA side, combined by not having full engineering options in DUB. So that looks a valid case for Article 7 to me.
Thank you.

Am I right that €400 is the amount? I thought my ‘technical issues’ was a sure thing until the posts above about the BHD flight. I suppose it depends exactly what caused damage. There was talk it happened the night before. I guess I could also have been rerouted quicker to minimise compensation.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 5:37 pm
  #266  
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Originally Posted by Davidjonesk View Post
Am I right that Ä400 is the amount? I thought my Ďtechnical issuesí was a sure thing until the posts above about the BHD flight. I suppose it depends exactly what caused damage. There was talk it happened the night before. I guess I could also have been rerouted quicker to minimise compensation.
Yes, it certainly does depend on the exact details, which you don't have. But yes, it's 2,900 km approx, assuming one reservation DUB to ATH, and it's entirely within the EU, so 400Ä potentially.
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Old Mar 18, 19, 10:55 pm
  #267  
 
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Missed Connection 15th March BA0967 and BA0057

Hello fellow travelers.
I'm seeking a bit of advice here before wasting my time trying to get compensation over a case where I'm not enentitled to.

So I was due to fly from Hamburg to Johannesburg starting on the 15th March arriving one day later at 10:15 local time in Johannesburg.
However BA0967 was already a few minutes late in Hamburg, Captain told us it was due to weather wind blowing with up to 30-40 knots.
We were then during the flight told that the weather actually got better now down to 15 knots in Heathrow but also that we'd be in a pattern due to reduced landing flow.
We then arrived late into Heathrow and on top of that had to wait for busses at a domestic stand.
At about 20:50 local time I got to the connection desk where you have to scan your boarding pass before security.
I was told by staff that the doors of BA0057 had already been closed and that I should go back to get myself rebooked and a room for the night.

I think I had to wait for about half an hour or slightly more, anyway during all that time my flight was showing up as final call and not as closed or departing.

​​​​On the next day I had to wait until 18:10 to catch BA0055 and finally got to Johannesburg although 19 hours and 21 minutes later then it should have been.

I'm under the impression that, given that BA0057 also had a delay of 51 minutes, I could have made it to the plane and arrive at my destination on time.
For reference, I arrived at terminal 5 and the flight to JNB was leaving from the C gates.

​​​​​​What do you think of this argument, do you believe I have a point here or will BA just say "Weather" and ignore my point that the connection could have been made given the fact that both planes were equally delayed?

I do understand that apart from the point with the connection it must have been down to weather and ATC and therefore I'm not entitled to compensation based on that point.

Thank you in advance for your help...maybe someone is even able to check when the doors of BA0057 actually closed.
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Old Mar 19, 19, 1:12 am
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Nils21 View Post
Thank you in advance for your help...maybe someone is even able to check when the doors of BA0057 actually closed.
I can't check the dispatch information more than about 3 days afterwards. The limited data I do have is that BA967 was timed to arrive at 19:30, and actually did at 20:31. However if it then required a bus transfer to Flight Connections that clearly would slow up the process to some degree. The timing for BA57 is that it was scheduled to depart at 21:10 and actually pushed back from C63 at 22:01. Under Ready to Fly, the gates should have worked until at least 20:35, maybe a bit later, but from a C gate I suspect it would have been 20:35. So on that basis you could not have made the flight, it would have been very tricky from an airbridge, beyond tricky with a bus. However what then happened was that there were delays for BA57, some of which may be down to late boarding, some of which down to getting a slot, runway congestion. A lot would ride on when boarding was completed, so it may be necessary for you to give what evidence you retained as to Final Call and so on.

I don't think you can get BA for weather related delays here, the question is whether you can pursue for Involuntary Denied Boarding instead. Clearly had you been allowed through the gate at whatever time it was, then you may have been able to make the flight. If doors were open to say 21:30 then you could have made it if let through at 21:00hrs. Now there is some jurisprudence in this area, for example Rodriguez v. Iberia, which you may want to check. If BA aren't willing to entertain this case - which is likely - you will then need to assemble a fairly detailed argument as to why Ready to Fly should have allowed you to proceed. Essentially your argument will be that BA didn't take all reasonable steps to get you to your flight. They will have a response to this, which is that in order to get boarding to complete, given the baggage situation, they have a cut-off point in an attempt to keep the flight on time, to allow for security, and to allow for baggage handling (if you were not HBO).

RtF timings have been relaxed several times in recent days, so in that respect you were unlucky.
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Old Mar 19, 19, 3:16 am
  #269  
 
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Thank you CWS for this very detailed answer.
I'll definitely have a read through the case you mentioned.
​​​​​​From the things you mentioned it is now clear to me why I wasn't allowed by Rtf to go through.
As for my bag I would have been very surprised if it made it, the important point for me was to be at my destination as scheduled if with or without my bag is not that important to me since it would have been there a day later anyway.
I also understand very well that at some point they have to get done with boarding to get a slot.
Question just is would it have been possible if BA would have got me through security on fast track plus a good bit of running involved on my side to be there in just 20-30 minutes, because my experience is that if you really want it terminal 5 transfer are really fast.
That would also be essentially my argument if asked why I should have been let through.
​​Also I know that the aircraft just gets parked at JNB and that there's no flight of the plane until the return to LHR later that day.
All in all I believe that this could well become a tricky situation as BA has a point with the weather and cut off times for the comfort of all the other passengers but I do believe I also have a point because the plane was actually an hour late and connection within terminal 5 are not that time consuming.

Again thank you so much for your help on getting a clear view on this.
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Old Mar 19, 19, 6:40 am
  #270  
 
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Downgrade CE to ET redemption booking - thoughts?

Hi All,

Hoping you can help? I travelled on a last minute Avios redemption MAN-LHR-AMS on Friday 15/3 on BA1375 in ET then booked on BA440 in CE.

Granted, there were weather issues across the network, but the actual reason BA1375 arrived late into LHR was the baggage handlers simply did not load our plane, and it took about an hour to sort out. The next LHR departure was parked next to us and got their baggage first, then duly pushed back and left! The captain and purser both confirmed this in announcements, although I'm pretty sure it'll be put down to weather. To cut the long story short we then missed our slot and were waiting to be able to depart.

I missed conformance, and went landside as the queue was enormous for rebooking and I knew I'd miss the later BA442 if I waited in it. I went to the desks and was given a boarding card for BA442 but in ET, not CE, and was told there were no alternatives that day as the flights were all full. (This did seem to check out from what I'd seen on the App and Google Flights, although someone else managed to get the last CE seat as it was showing 1 until I got to the desk when it disappeared). Since I needed to travel I swallowed it up as it is only a short flight.

I suppose my question is the redemption was 4000 +£17.50 for MAN/LHR and then 7750 +£25 for LHR/AMS leg. I think even if BA agreed to pay out the 30% back is such a pittance. I guess all I should be expecting is a refund of £7.50 tax and 3750 Avios for the difference between ET and CE on the second flight? Or am I missing something? Final arrival in Schiphol was 21.35 vs original planned 19.15 btw.

Thanks for your input
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