Dec 20, 2018, 5:24 am
Last edit by: Canarsie
Travelling to of from London Gatwick 21 December 2018
All LGW services operated on Friday with 2 exceptions (BA2758/0 to AMS and back; BA2938/9 EDI and back). Many flights were heavily delayed.
List of inbound BA diversions from latest closure is in post 463
Incomplete list of inbound cancellations for Friday 21 December is here in post 298.
Current customer guidelines in this post 344 (you can rebook free of charge to 5 January and reroute via LHR/LCY). Try rebooking via the App if you can, otherwise you need to telephone BA.
Background
Gatwick Airport was closed at 21:03 on Wednesday 19 December following reports of drones flying over the airfield. Sightings have continued throughout Thursday 20 December requiring the airport to remain closed. Gatwick Airport advising all passengers to check the status of their flights before travelling to the airport. Gatwick airport was further closed on Friday 21 December from 17:00 until 18:25 at which time normal operations resumed after suspected drone sightings.
Previous updates
Current list of cancelled and diverted services
Post 96 and Post 132 and Post 184
All LGW services operated on Friday with 2 exceptions (BA2758/0 to AMS and back; BA2938/9 EDI and back). Many flights were heavily delayed.
List of inbound BA diversions from latest closure is in post 463
Incomplete list of inbound cancellations for Friday 21 December is here in post 298.
Current customer guidelines in this post 344 (you can rebook free of charge to 5 January and reroute via LHR/LCY). Try rebooking via the App if you can, otherwise you need to telephone BA.
Background
Gatwick Airport was closed at 21:03 on Wednesday 19 December following reports of drones flying over the airfield. Sightings have continued throughout Thursday 20 December requiring the airport to remain closed. Gatwick Airport advising all passengers to check the status of their flights before travelling to the airport. Gatwick airport was further closed on Friday 21 December from 17:00 until 18:25 at which time normal operations resumed after suspected drone sightings.
Previous updates
Current list of cancelled and diverted services
Post 96 and Post 132 and Post 184
LGW closed due to drone activity
Dec 21, 2018, 4:54 pm
#526
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: BA exec, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 556
Right I will bite - I was one of the police officers involved in flight BA Airtours Corfu August 1985, a time that lasts in my memory. What have you seen in your life? also dealt with 28 in one family killed by smoke that year - ok I’m listening. I could go on...
Dec 21, 2018, 4:59 pm
#527
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Englandshire
Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
Posts: 16,028
Folks, a reminder : If posts contain “You”, then that’s a pretty reliable indication of being the wrong side of FTs “If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated“ rule.
Please bear this in mind.
Please bear this in mind.
Dec 21, 2018, 5:17 pm
#529
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,195
As a pilot one of the things that I worry about is hitting one of these bar-steward devices. Admittedly the immediate effects won’t be anywhere near as bad as an IED strike. That said it is the first poor sod to hit it that can expose the existence of the threat in the first place. The effects of the startle in the flight deck that low down given a shattering of the windshield need not be emphasised.
And no, we are not set up to autoland on every single approach we fly.
The advice given is simple. Reduce speed, expect delays and be prepared to divert. When the day comes that ones of these things does indeed penetrate a flightdeck then the rules will change again. Airpsace closure until it can be assured there are no more of the feckin things in the area.
Drones are misused these days and become a curse. Sadly one with very severe consequences. Too many li-on batts mis handled and loaded can also have disastrous consequences. UPS 6 in DXB is proof enough. Aviation is all about risk management. Risk is simply severity mulitplied by probability. When a drone is clearly being deliberatly flown to disrupt the risk factor goes up, especially when the offender is a total “unknown unknown”. Thankfully we have yet to definitively loose an aircraft due to a drone strike. As with all things the clock is ticking on that one and the past couple of days has highlighted the vunerability of some of our nation’s key transport infrastructure. Ministers caught with their pants down well and truly.
5 years is nothing and few if any will ever recieve the maximum is caught, convicted and sentenced. Given the difficulties in applying a common consunsus on how to tackle the threat a higher penality taffif and far stronger and stringent licensing of ALL drones, regardless of size is required. It puts the onus on the user and generaltes more income for the CAA (all they care about these days). There needs to be a step change in how these devices are perceived in terms of their uses and the reponsibility of owners to discharge their responsibility in terms of good airmanship, something beyond the scope of most kids getting one of these things for Christmas so they can upload ‘viral’ footage to their youtube channels etc.
Dec 21, 2018, 6:07 pm
#531
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,374
Clearly a lot happening in the background with persons of interest on the radar and despite the pilots and drones not being found Thursday and Friday the airport was able to re-open indeed the Gatwick twitter feed citing the military steps in place deemed it safe to operate. Surprised this clip of how the Dutch police tackle drones hasn’t been shown more.
Dec 21, 2018, 6:33 pm
#532
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere around Europe...
Programs: BA Gold; MB Ti; HH Diamond; IHG Plat; RR Gold
Posts: 530
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kAYVyj6vf3Y
Clearly a lot happening in the background with persons of interest on the radar and despite the pilots and drones not being found Thursday and Friday the airport was able to re-open indeed the Gatwick twitter feed citing the military steps in place deemed it safe to operate. Surprised this clip of how the Dutch police tackle drones hasn’t been shown more.
Clearly a lot happening in the background with persons of interest on the radar and despite the pilots and drones not being found Thursday and Friday the airport was able to re-open indeed the Gatwick twitter feed citing the military steps in place deemed it safe to operate. Surprised this clip of how the Dutch police tackle drones hasn’t been shown more.
Risks came to light in practice. For example, the birds would not always do what they were trained for and therefore the police doubt whether the birds will perform well outside the controlled training environment. The birds have been present during the past year at events in Rotterdam and Brussels, but they have not acted.
The Netherlands is the first country in the world that wanted to prevent attacks and accidents with drones in this way. The police are now looking for other ways to intercept unwanted drones.
The Netherlands is the first country in the world that wanted to prevent attacks and accidents with drones in this way. The police are now looking for other ways to intercept unwanted drones.
Dec 21, 2018, 6:54 pm
#533
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Fortunately 35 years later we have a better appreciation of risk in most areas of life. And planning for drone attacks is in its infancy (wasn't this the first major incident) so there will be an element of safety first as opposed to macho behaviour.
Dec 21, 2018, 9:44 pm
#535
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 63,607
I do wonder whether the delay in using measures like a shotgun-from-helicopter included calculations on being more interested in locating the operators versus simply shooting down the drones. There's little chance of a drone outrunning a helicopter, and you wouldn't need large pellets to take down a drone.
In terms of counter-intelligence, often times people decide to allow the identified agents to continue to operate in the hopes of identifying others.
Given two people seem to have been arrested after military equipment was brought in which allowed the CAPTURE of the drone(s) in question.....
In terms of counter-intelligence, often times people decide to allow the identified agents to continue to operate in the hopes of identifying others.
Given two people seem to have been arrested after military equipment was brought in which allowed the CAPTURE of the drone(s) in question.....
Dec 22, 2018, 1:13 am
#536
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,607
Really!
You keep pushing yourself as a defender of this mess
Shutting down the airport doesn’t = a continengency plan?.
you give authority more credence than due - ask them for their business continuity/emergency planning policy docs
This is and stands as a unmitigated mess. You don’t demonstrate any informed knowledge- pure subjective hyperbole on your part.
feeling so confident - why don’t you go for a walk about amongst those stranded at LGW and extole your views of UK plc handling of this ?
It certainly is a contingency plan. The risk register probably says something like "drones in airport area", probability low, impact high, known when drones detected, contingency shut down airport until situation is assessed, bring in tracking equipment to locate operator.
The issue about whether it's popular with passengers isn't relevant. Delays and cancellations are never popular, more so when they're holidays at Christmas. If the question put to them is "you have a much higher than usual probability of being in an air crash if we proceed with operations, are you willing to travel?" then that becomes a different conversation.
Dec 22, 2018, 1:49 am
#537
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,606
Strange you say "BA Airtours Corfu August 1985". It was at Manchester, heading for Corfu.
Dec 22, 2018, 1:49 am
#538
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 377
These situations are difficult to deal with inherently. It's really very unfair to criticise people attempting to deal safely with fast moving low level drones in the dark in a fairly densely populated area. It does seem that effective countermeasures have been put in place in around 24 hours, which is pretty impressive - there's your contingency plan for you. And of course it's a learning curve, this situation hasn't happened before anywhere.
I do understand that people believe there are simple instant solutions. But there really aren't. There may or may not be control signals - the drones may be on pre-programmed courses. There is a lot of countryside around Gatwick to hide in. I think it's been dealt with pretty well, the worst case would have been days of this.
I do understand that people believe there are simple instant solutions. But there really aren't. There may or may not be control signals - the drones may be on pre-programmed courses. There is a lot of countryside around Gatwick to hide in. I think it's been dealt with pretty well, the worst case would have been days of this.
It certainly is a contingency plan. The risk register probably says something like "drones in airport area", probability low, impact high, known when drones detected, contingency shut down airport until situation is assessed, bring in tracking equipment to locate operator.
The issue about whether it's popular with passengers isn't relevant. Delays and cancellations are never popular, more so when they're holidays at Christmas. If the question put to them is "you have a much higher than usual probability of being in an air crash if we proceed with operations, are you willing to travel?" then that becomes a different conversation.
The issue about whether it's popular with passengers isn't relevant. Delays and cancellations are never popular, more so when they're holidays at Christmas. If the question put to them is "you have a much higher than usual probability of being in an air crash if we proceed with operations, are you willing to travel?" then that becomes a different conversation.
Dec 22, 2018, 2:03 am
#539
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,476
Mod advisory
Folks, following up on my colleague Oxon Flyer’s post, now would be an extremely good time to cease the competition as to who’s braver or more battle-scarred before it becomes too disruptive to the thread.
This should primarily be about information sharing to help those potentially still trying to rearrange their itineraries. The conduct of some members does not present BAFT in at all a friendly or welcoming light for those who are visiting us for the first time.
/mod
This should primarily be about information sharing to help those potentially still trying to rearrange their itineraries. The conduct of some members does not present BAFT in at all a friendly or welcoming light for those who are visiting us for the first time.
/mod
Dec 22, 2018, 2:11 am
#540
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,607
Some interesting comment in the@aviationcomment twitter feed
This has also been reported in the Sun, but a cyclist was spotted collecting a couple of drones some time prior to the arrests.
This has also been reported in the Sun, but a cyclist was spotted collecting a couple of drones some time prior to the arrests.