is there an EX-US loophole similar to the EX-EU?
Dec 18, 2018, 6:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: LAX/MXP
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 564
is there an EX-US loophole similar to the EX-EU?
apologies if this has been discussed before, but a quick google search only returned threads from several years ago.
I was just wondering, is there such a thing as an ex-US loophole similar to how the ex-EU cheaper J fares work?
thanks!
I was just wondering, is there such a thing as an ex-US loophole similar to how the ex-EU cheaper J fares work?
thanks!
Dec 18, 2018, 6:55 pm
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Sort of, but not for the reasons that this works in the EU.
In the US, it may be possible to find F/J fares which are cheaper when purchased originating at a city other than the intended physical origin and they may be cheap enough that it is worth purchasing a positioning ticket to fly out to that city.
The principle underlying the EU scheme is simply more pronounced because the Irish market, by way of example, will not support LON pricing. But, EU law prohibits price discrimination within the EU. Thus, if BA offers DUB-LHR-JFK for less than LHR-JFK it may not impose an Irish residency requirement on the ticket.
The constraints are the same too. There is nothing wrong with either form of ticketing. But, if one engages in hidden city ticketing fraud by skipping the final segment, one risks all of the outcomes which might occur.
In the US, it may be possible to find F/J fares which are cheaper when purchased originating at a city other than the intended physical origin and they may be cheap enough that it is worth purchasing a positioning ticket to fly out to that city.
The principle underlying the EU scheme is simply more pronounced because the Irish market, by way of example, will not support LON pricing. But, EU law prohibits price discrimination within the EU. Thus, if BA offers DUB-LHR-JFK for less than LHR-JFK it may not impose an Irish residency requirement on the ticket.
The constraints are the same too. There is nothing wrong with either form of ticketing. But, if one engages in hidden city ticketing fraud by skipping the final segment, one risks all of the outcomes which might occur.
Dec 18, 2018, 7:20 pm
#4
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
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Matrix is still very useful for this because all the departure cities are in the same country unlike ex-EU where a Matrix search limits you to a single country as the departure point.
I have found some outstanding deals using this method over the past 2-3 years. I have never missed a final sector.
Dec 18, 2018, 9:55 pm
#5
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,990
Unfortunately not OneWorld but AC has some amazing biz class fares from the US to Asia and Europe. I really should be Star too but I keep hoping that BA will revert to 10 years ago fares-wise
Dec 18, 2018, 10:11 pm
#6
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
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I have done trip in the past to a city on the continent that were much cheaper than to LHR. LIN used to be a cheap destination, so I would go from Canada to LIN, have lunch and then on a separate ticket go back to LHR. Coming home, I used the second half of my LIN-LHR return ticket and then flew LIN-Canada, connecting in LHR.
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
Dec 18, 2018, 10:23 pm
#7
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,990
I have done trip in the past to a city on the continent that were much cheaper than to LHR. LIN used to be a cheap destination, so I would go from Canada to LIN, have lunch and then on a separate ticket go back to LHR. Coming home, I used the second half of my LIN-LHR return ticket and then flew LIN-Canada, connecting in LHR.
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
Dec 18, 2018, 10:53 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Manhattan Beach, California
Programs: BMI Diamond Club Gold forever
Posts: 6,367
I live in Seattle and find ex-YVR is very much like ex-EU- generally 20-35% cheaper than similar ex-SEA routing. It is clear that YVR cannot sustain the same pricing as we have here.
I have a Nexus card for quick border crossing by car and it generally only adds 90 minutes on to my journey to drive up to YVR. Last trip in Dec ex-YVR was $3400 and ex-SEA was $7200 so an even bigger savings.
I have a Nexus card for quick border crossing by car and it generally only adds 90 minutes on to my journey to drive up to YVR. Last trip in Dec ex-YVR was $3400 and ex-SEA was $7200 so an even bigger savings.
Dec 18, 2018, 10:58 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,578
I wouldn't describe this as a loophole. The reason some places are a lot cheaper (thinking AMS, Scandinavia) is that there is healthy competition and people are more price sensitive. Also worth pointing out that these are usually sale prices and not available year round.
Dec 18, 2018, 11:16 pm
#10
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
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In my experience it isn't common to find the backtrack sort of savings (where you might fly LHR-DUB, then DUB-LHR-JFK), but cities do have different prices depending on the market and competition. For example, LAX is far more competitive than PHX, so I often find it far cheaper to buy a separate PHX-LAX ticket, then an onward LAX-LHR, rather than PHX-LHR or even a single PHX-LAX-LHR ticket.
Dec 18, 2018, 11:42 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: LAX/MXP
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 564
I have done trip in the past to a city on the continent that were much cheaper than to LHR. LIN used to be a cheap destination, so I would go from Canada to LIN, have lunch and then on a separate ticket go back to LHR. Coming home, I used the second half of my LIN-LHR return ticket and then flew LIN-Canada, connecting in LHR.
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
Price was often less than half of a Canada -LHR return. In this case, all sectors have to be used, as the final LHR-Canada sector is what was really desired, the detour to Europe is simply to get the cheap fare and extra TP's. Also from a Canadian perspective, you can sound posh at cocktail parties to say you went to Milan for lunch...
thank you all for the many replies and insights.
I’m based In Los Angeles, so everything is pretty expensive considering there’s a lot of wealth here and many people can easily afford J and F seats.
I rarely have to fly only to LHR, usually continuing onward to Milan. I can see fares can be cheaper getting to Italy rather than ending the journey in London, but we’re still very far from some of the amazing ex-EU fares I see in this forum.
I’ll try play a bit more with ITA matrix.
thanks!
Dec 19, 2018, 12:14 am
#12
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: Avis President's Club, Global Entry, Hilton/Marriott Gold. No more DL/AA status.
Posts: 4,422
I’m originally from Milan! So I’ll definitely check routing via Canada!
thank you all for the many replies and insights.
I’m based In Los Angeles, so everything is pretty expensive considering there’s a lot of wealth here and many people can easily afford J and F seats.
I rarely have to fly only to LHR, usually continuing onward to Milan. I can see fares can be cheaper getting to Italy rather than ending the journey in London, but we’re still very far from some of the amazing ex-EU fares I see in this forum.
I’ll try play a bit more with ITA matrix.
thanks!
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Dec 19, 2018, 12:47 am
#14
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
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Posts: 6,111
You can, as mentioned above, find some cheaper flights from out-of-the-way cities in the USA and those are legitimate fares to take. Do be aware that AA is much more vigorous about enforcing their rules on hidden city ticketing than BA is; definitely do not make a habit of failing to take your return flight to your small-town origin and instead getting out at the large transfer hub.
Dec 19, 2018, 1:09 am
#15
Join Date: Jul 1999
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I would not say that EU is a pricing anomaly. Probably more of the norm, lots of different countries, all within limited space with preference pricing for direct vs non direct pricing. You would see similar with say LH with LHR origin vs MUC or FRA. And same goes for SK, LX, SN and the like. Enables the yield people to manage supply and demand. CX are masters of this, look at /I/ availability out of say LHR or CDG versus out of ARN or CPH - you will be taking the same long haul segments but with very different prices and very different availability on LHR-HKG based on your starting point.
Similiars would be SE Asia with hkg, Bkk, sin, kul etc, same with northern Asia, Middle East, Africa etc..
just hard to to find in the USA as it is one country so often priced similarly.
At at the end of the day, BA is very happy to sell tickets in business ex Scandinavia or Netherlands.
KF
Similiars would be SE Asia with hkg, Bkk, sin, kul etc, same with northern Asia, Middle East, Africa etc..
just hard to to find in the USA as it is one country so often priced similarly.
At at the end of the day, BA is very happy to sell tickets in business ex Scandinavia or Netherlands.
KF