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-   -   Interesting Court Decision In Germany - Passenger does not need to fly last leg (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1945411-interesting-court-decision-germany-passenger-does-not-need-fly-last-leg.html)

Shl Dec 12, 2018 9:29 am

Interesting Court Decision In Germany - Passenger does not need to fly last leg
 
A German district court has ruled against Lufthansa. A passenger was charged € 2,100 (around £ 1.900) for not flying his last leg to OSL (ex-EU flight). However, the passenger did not agree with Lufthansa's demand and sought advice from a law firm (Franz LLP).

As described in the report on the firm's website the man had booked a trip with Lufthansa from Oslo via Frankfurt to North America (and also back). He started his journey in OSL, but on the way back he broke off his journey in Frankfurt and flew - on a separate Lufthansa reservation - on to Berlin. In a first hearing the court showed a trend to decide in the favour of the customer. Lufthansa then wanted to withdraw the lawsuit, however the passenger wanted a verdict. The court ruled and declared the conditions of carriage partially ineffective. The passenger does not have to pay.

The judgement is not yet final and Lufthansa can still appeal. However, according to lawyer Matthias Böse this is unlikely, as the terms and conditions show massive deficiencies. In an interview with German blog travel-dealz.de he said: "The current decision has clarified that passengers under the previous conditions of carriage can at least forfeit flights at the end of a ticket without penalty."

This seems to be the first court ruling in such a case. It will be interesting to see how it finishes, as this would certainly effect other European carriers - and with this BA - as well. However, as stated, unlikely that Lufthansa appeals.

UKtravelbear Dec 12, 2018 10:09 am

My understanding is that this only applies in Germany just as the IB ruling only applies to Spain. For it to apply across the EU there would need to be a ruling by the ECJ which would only happen if LH appealed to the ECJ and they confirmed the German ruling.

LH have a simple remedy which is to update their T&Cs to allow them to reprice the ticket to flights actually flown and the sooner they do that the sooner this ruling will have no effects.

subject2load Dec 12, 2018 10:49 am


Originally Posted by UKtravelbear (Post 30527572)

..............................

LH have a simple remedy which is to update their T&Cs to allow them to reprice the ticket to flights actually flown and the sooner they do that the sooner this ruling will have no effects.

I’m not so sure that it would be so simple as that - whether for Lufthansa or any other carrier. Some sort of update/revision could indeed prove to be a solution - but perhaps only a temporary one, until such time as it is challenged again.

My knowledge of German law is marginally less than zero. But certainly in the UK, where we have an Unfair Terms Contract Act, it has been shown that, whilst an organisation can incorporate (pretty much) whatever it chooses into its consumer T&C’s, it cannot necessarily rely on all aspects of those being upheld in a Court. On numerous occasions, judges have ruled that certain dubious T&C’s are not binding upon a customer who feels adversely affected. I seem to remember a case (amongst many) of a large tour operator being satisfied with itself for including small print to the effect that if it changed pre-booked, confirmed, hotel accommodation, at the last minute to another, inferior, property then then the customer just had to suck it up. But damages were awarded, if I have my facts right. Happy to be corrected.

It will be interesting to see how this scenario pans out in the coming months / years. Yes, the decisions do seemingly apply only to Spain and Germany respectively. But nor would I say it’s impossible to imagine other countries going down a similar path.





Nephoi Dec 12, 2018 11:10 am


Originally Posted by Shl (Post 30527412)
A German district court has ruled against Lufthansa. A passenger was charged € 2,100 (around £ 2.300) for not flying his last leg to OSL (ex-EU flight). However, the passenger did not agree with Lufthansa's demand and sought advice from a law firm (Franz LLP).

As described in the report on the firm's website the man had booked a trip with Lufthansa from Oslo via Frankfurt to North America (and also back). He started his journey in OSL, but on the way back he broke off his journey in Frankfurt and flew - on a separate Lufthansa reservation - on to Berlin. In a first hearing the court showed a trend to decide in the favour of the customer. Lufthansa then wanted to withdraw the lawsuit, however the passenger wanted a verdict. The court ruled and declared the conditions of carriage partially ineffective. The passenger does not have to pay.

The judgement is not yet final and Lufthansa can still appeal. However, according to lawyer Matthias Böse this is unlikely, as the terms and conditions show massive deficiencies. In an interview with German blog travel-dealz.de he said: "The current decision has clarified that passengers under the previous conditions of carriage can at least forfeit flights at the end of a ticket without penalty."

This seems to be the first court ruling in such a case. It will be interesting to see how it finishes, as this would certainly effect other European carriers - and with this BA - as well. However, as stated, unlikely that Lufthansa appeals.

but its only an Amtsgericht decision. Its not final.

mario Dec 12, 2018 12:09 pm

This repricing malarkey does not apply to British airways in any way shape or form. According to BA's own conditions of carriage, if you miss a sector in your journey British airways is allowed to reprice the ticket and if you don't pay up they can refuse to carry you.

Nowhere does it say that you have to pay BA the repriced journey. You can just accept the consequence of having your ticket voided which won't be a problem if it's the last sector anyway. It's all there in writing, black and white.

I sometimes wonder where do flyertalkers get these hallucinated fantasies of the airline coming after you trying to collect your money...
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Xonus Dec 12, 2018 12:11 pm

Could be coming from agents of the airline. I once cancelled an Avis booking (which had cost maybe $50) - the agent said I was liable for a $100 cancellation fee, at which point I just laughed at her. She genuinely thought they would charge me more than the rental. People might be told the same on the phone with BA.

Often1 Dec 12, 2018 12:30 pm

Thes are phyrric victories. When the German courts determined that tickets sold in Germany could not categorically require that segments be flown in the order issued, the result was that for those tickets, carriers offer the opportunity to purchase a ticket which need not be flown in order issues. It is imply much more expensive.

There is nothing remotely unfair about the carrier practice of selling different routes at different prices based on supply and demand. Rather, those carriers which have inaccurate contracts will have them interpreted against them.

Sealink Dec 12, 2018 12:35 pm

Surely the number of people doing exEU is tiny.
I've done a few exINV (have family there) and find it exhausting. And if LH and BA are selling a route for a price, they should be aware of the extra revenue of positioning flights etc.

Tafflyer Dec 12, 2018 12:53 pm

After reading the judgement I can say that the reason Lufthansa lost was because their pricing was intransparent. The only way they could get around this is if before purchase they require the passenger to agree to a repricing and clearly state what those prices would be for each phase of the journey depending on when you interupt travel.

The LH CoC, just like BA do allow a repricing if you do not fly the entire ticket. This was deemed invalid. I do consider this ruling as important and I will no longer have any qualm booking any of these kinds of tickets from Germany. Also BA tickets originating in Germany but abandoned in LHR would come under this ruling IMHO.

Globaliser Dec 12, 2018 3:24 pm

Sadly, if this leads to more revenue leakage from the lucrative market which would logically fly non-stop from the airline's hub, the airline will become less keen to carry the connecting traffic at current prices.

That is what I'm concerned about as a possible longer-term effect if this makes it possible for people to contract for a cheap product but use a more expensive product with impunity.

Dave Noble Dec 12, 2018 3:48 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 30528182)
Thes are phyrric victories. When the German courts determined that tickets sold in Germany could not categorically require that segments be flown in the order issued, the result was that for those tickets, carriers offer the opportunity to purchase a ticket which need not be flown in order issues. It is imply much more expensive.

How on earth is this a phyrric (sic) victory. The airline wanted to charge the passenger for not taking the last segment - the court ruled that it cannout

it may mean that the airline changes its terms to allow for it or , maybe it will decide to actually appeal ( and maybe even win ) - but the case itself is a victory for the passenger in that by taking it to court and not paying up, he has voided a charge from Lufthansa for €2,100

If winning a case for €2,100 is a pyrrhic victory , what is needed for a real victory?

creflo Dec 12, 2018 3:49 pm


Originally Posted by mario (Post 30528105)
This repricing malarkey does not apply to British airways in any way shape or form. According to BA's own conditions of carriage, if you miss a sector in your journey British airways is allowed to reprice the ticket and if you don't pay up they can refuse to carry you.

Nowhere does it say that you have to pay BA the repriced journey. You can just accept the consequence of having your ticket voided which won't be a problem if it's the last sector anyway. It's all there in writing, black and white.

I sometimes wonder where do flyertalkers get these hallucinated fantasies of the airline coming after you trying to collect your money...
​​​​​​

That’s the relevant section:

“Where you change your travel without our agreement and the price for the resulting transportation you intend to undertake is greater than the price originally paid, you will be requested to pay the difference in price.”

mario Dec 12, 2018 3:51 pm


Originally Posted by creflo (Post 30528865)


That’s the relevant section:

“Where you change your travel without our agreement and the price for the resulting transportation you intend to undertake is greater than the price originally paid, you will be requested to pay the difference in price.”

You "forgot" to post the excerpt that explains what happens if you don't pay. This exact paragraph continues like this:


Failure to pay the price applicable to your revised transportation will result in refusal of carriage.

creflo Dec 12, 2018 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by mario (Post 30528874)
You "forgot" to post the excerpt that explains what happens if you don't pay.

Cancelling the ticket is just one of the remedies. Collecting the difference is another. It’s a statutory remedy. I did not “forget” it.

Damages would be another.

Ldnn1 Dec 12, 2018 4:01 pm


Originally Posted by creflo (Post 30528885)


Cancelling the ticket is just one of the remedies. Collecting the difference is another. It’s a statutory remedy. I did not “forget” it.

Damages would be another.

How is it a statutory remedy?!?


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