Club Europe Seats
Dec 10, 2018, 4:08 am
#46
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 691
Dec 10, 2018, 11:59 am
#47
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSN
Programs: Delta DM, Bonvoy LT Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,987
I’m on BA851 WAW>LHR right now I’m 2C (CE) and the “gentleman” in 3C has stuck his leg through the entirety of the under seat and is resting it on my leg. I believe 3C is also CE. They need more pitch.
Dec 10, 2018, 2:14 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 198
I know this comment has been made before when European J seats have been discussed, and many seem to think there is some untapped demand for a fixed 2+2 J cabin. Apart from a very few exceptions (e.g TK on some flights to LHR), if this demand is so clear why does no European short haul carrier offer it?
Dec 10, 2018, 2:47 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Silver, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 1,038
I'm 6' and seem to be ok. My knees just clear of the seat in front. The flexibility for BA is the main factor here. Maybe it would be more accurately marketed as premium economy but for the most part the service hard and soft meet the price people are prepared to pay. Fixed and or bigger seats would increase the price and i'm not sure most people would pay that for a 1-3 hour flight.
Most of the time I have gone CE the price over ET+ has been £30 - £40 (in some cases it has even been cheeper then ET). If it comes in more then I'll stay in ET but you pays your money and takes your choice.
Most of the time I have gone CE the price over ET+ has been £30 - £40 (in some cases it has even been cheeper then ET). If it comes in more then I'll stay in ET but you pays your money and takes your choice.
Dec 14, 2018, 5:29 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,345
The pitch is generally terrible for anyone over 6'2" plain and simple. If the Op is looking for European carriers with better Biz seats then Turkish and Aeroflot is what he need to fly, as those are the only larger carriers that have them. As for the argument "so BA has the flexibility to sell 1 or 12 rows"...........poppycock. BA sets the availability of the tickets as well as the flexibility of such tickets, I actually believe that if they set their pricing and availabilities properly they could in fact do a 4-6 row Biz across the SH fleet and be profitable. As mentioned above, the biggest problem is that while internally BA has "mid haul" destinations, they do NOT have a mid-haul fleet. This killed them so bad into Moscow that they relented and put bigger/better a/c on the route, but kills them on other mid-haul routes where the competition often has a better product in every way shape and form.
Dec 14, 2018, 5:47 pm
#52
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Location: AU
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I'm 6'3 and it's manageable. As long as you sit fully upright (back right into the seat back) there's enough knee room, and you only need that for take-off and landing. During flight there's plenty of room sideways to get comfortable. For a 2-3 hours it's ok.
Dec 14, 2018, 5:56 pm
#53
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,129
It's odd, isn't it?
Flew DL First in domestic, 90 minute flights and had crisps as a snack. Gave me appreciation for European food, which I've generally found to be great. (Apart from the BA panini)
Flew DL First in domestic, 90 minute flights and had crisps as a snack. Gave me appreciation for European food, which I've generally found to be great. (Apart from the BA panini)
Dec 14, 2018, 6:06 pm
#54
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
For 90 minutes I would rather have a comfortable flight with a packet of crisps than economy seating ( with empty seat ) and the food offering BA provides
Dec 14, 2018, 6:23 pm
#55
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Location: AU
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I have to do the same for domestic US F or other J product with a small 36-38 inch pitch (including just about all premium economy classes). So I don't feel much of a difference between the club europe and and fixed 2-2.
Dec 14, 2018, 6:34 pm
#56
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
I have no issue just being able to sit normally with QF, AA or VA at 37" - but CE at 30" is too tight
Dec 15, 2018, 2:45 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Shoreham By Sea
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,330
I really think BA should give up calling this business class. Firstly, it really isn’t. Secondly, 90% of the soft benefits are already in the bag for status passengers but finally, this policy means there is a higher rate of APD when you are travelling in the same goddam seat!
When travelling with kids it’s worse as they are exempt from APD in Y but pay the full rate in J.
Considering airports now sell lounge access and fast track. Airlines sell food on board and extra baggage, there is nothing that even a non status pax can easily pay for, apart from maybe blocking the middle seat, but even for status pax this happens frequently anyhow.
For less than £100 one can add lounge access, fast track, an extra bag, some grub and some booze to have exactly the same experience as somoene who has paid for a J ticket. For a status pax that costs falls to £10-£20 depending on how much they want to drink, but this person will likely have a better experience than those up front as they will have bagged the extra legroom seats.
Then if the ariline thinks there is a market for proper business class then have it on all but the 319’s 6 on an A320 (a. Loss of just 6 economy seats) and 24 on a 321 (with the loss of 14 economy seats) All with at least 38’pitch.
I would pay a premium over current CE pricing for these seats.
If an average economy ET seat sells for say £100 before APD then the premium BA would need to charge over current CE pricing would be £100 in my example on the 320 and just £58 on the 321 example.
There is arguably a loss to the airline when there are fewer J seats than they could sell, but most of these are surely to connecting pax moving onto a long haul sector.
When travelling with kids it’s worse as they are exempt from APD in Y but pay the full rate in J.
Considering airports now sell lounge access and fast track. Airlines sell food on board and extra baggage, there is nothing that even a non status pax can easily pay for, apart from maybe blocking the middle seat, but even for status pax this happens frequently anyhow.
For less than £100 one can add lounge access, fast track, an extra bag, some grub and some booze to have exactly the same experience as somoene who has paid for a J ticket. For a status pax that costs falls to £10-£20 depending on how much they want to drink, but this person will likely have a better experience than those up front as they will have bagged the extra legroom seats.
Then if the ariline thinks there is a market for proper business class then have it on all but the 319’s 6 on an A320 (a. Loss of just 6 economy seats) and 24 on a 321 (with the loss of 14 economy seats) All with at least 38’pitch.
I would pay a premium over current CE pricing for these seats.
If an average economy ET seat sells for say £100 before APD then the premium BA would need to charge over current CE pricing would be £100 in my example on the 320 and just £58 on the 321 example.
There is arguably a loss to the airline when there are fewer J seats than they could sell, but most of these are surely to connecting pax moving onto a long haul sector.
Dec 15, 2018, 3:25 am
#58
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But there is also the cheap upgrade market, which at £59 (and upwards) for a leisure flight is not bad if you don't have status, and makes a nice start to a weekend break. And when CE is included in a connecting fare I'd rather have what's on offer than be back in economy.
Dec 15, 2018, 4:01 am
#59
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
It isn't just a question of whether people would pay a premium, it's the operating flexibility it provides.
Like other LCCs, BA has gone for a single seating configuration. By having economy seats throughout it means if they need to change from 2 rows of CE to 12, it is a 5 minute job. Lower maintenance costs as well.
Such is the price paid for keeping costs low and fares down.
Like other LCCs, BA has gone for a single seating configuration. By having economy seats throughout it means if they need to change from 2 rows of CE to 12, it is a 5 minute job. Lower maintenance costs as well.
Such is the price paid for keeping costs low and fares down.
Dec 15, 2018, 6:00 am
#60
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,587
People connecting off long-haul CW would complain that they're not being flown "in Business" the entire journey.