Club Europe Seats
Dec 9, 2018, 2:42 am
#16
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Comparing BA short haul with AA short haul and I could see why BA's setup gives them a lot more flexibility over no changeable seats however I wondered how often the 'curtain' would move forward and backwards on any given aircraft to warrant non fixed, bigger seats?
Anyone got any info?
Anyone got any info?
Dec 9, 2018, 3:08 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
True, these short QF hops can be very expensive. But they can sometimes be less than you state - and also worth remembering that the gap is not always so huge : it is not unheard of to see BA quoting circa £800 for a return in CE as short as LHR-FRA.
Dec 9, 2018, 3:08 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,682
I’m not suggesting BA are wrong, but because the curtain can move BA use a pricing model that makes it far more likely it will move. If they had 12 ‘proper’ businesss seats at the front, and priced them to that model, things could possibly be different. I’m really just making the point that there’s a inbuilt bias with the curtain move, and a pricing model that keeps selling CE seats to a max.
Dec 9, 2018, 3:10 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,403
just done a BNE-SYD flight in J with QF. It was QF551 at 17:35 (1h35 flight duration) which had a refreshment service. Was not expecting much after checking the QF forum but was amazed by the service. Had a hot meal with a desert: steak with spinash and baked potatoes, lemon tart and the best bread I have ever eaten on a plane. The guy manning J class was perfect. I was in row 1 and he introduced himself to me and called me by my surname (I am BA Gold). He did that only to another passenger who must have been another FF. I never get that on BA whether in Y or J. The seats were wide with great legroom, foot rests and adjustable recline and back rest. Drinks kept on being offered throughout the flight.
Now I do understand the markets are different but BA could introduce a different seat for J class in Europe up to row 3 and then have then create a new Premium Economy class that is exactly the same as today’s business (meal and blocked middle seat). That way they have maximum flexibility and it woulf allow them to satisfy those customers that want a real business class configuration.
Given fares in Qantas biz class - for a Monday morning are running at £616 SYD-BNE, £801 SYD-MEL (bth one hour flights) and SYD-PER is a whopping £2029 (yes, one way for a four hour flight) - you'd expect a lot better product.
I don't really get the criticism of euro business. Unless you are really wide, an economy seat with vacant middle is just fine. In fact a bit more room than you'd have on a traditional 2-2 set up. The pitch is a bit rough, but 38 inches for UA and AU first/biz class isn't really that spectacular either. Euro airlines (LH. LX, AF) seem to have better quality food than Australia, and everyone gets the same thing. No one misses out.
Dec 9, 2018, 3:39 am
#20
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK. BAEC AAdvantage
Programs: Mucci Des Oeufs Brouilles et des Canards
Posts: 3,671
This experience is not really the norm... except perhaps for very top tier passengers (those in the row 1). For the rest of us, by about row 2 the hot meal choices have run out, leaving maybe only a sandwich or cheese box. And the really slow pace of service means those in row three don't even get a drink or meal until the top of descent (meaning a pretty rushed mela).
Given fares in Qantas biz class - for a Monday morning are running at £616 SYD-BNE, £801 SYD-MEL (bth one hour flights) and SYD-PER is a whopping £2029 (yes, one way for a four hour flight) - you'd expect a lot better product.
I don't really get the criticism of euro business. Unless you are really wide, an economy seat with vacant middle is just fine. In fact a bit more room than you'd have on a traditional 2-2 set up. The pitch is a bit rough, but 38 inches for UA and AU first/biz class isn't really that spectacular either. Euro airlines (LH. LX, AF) seem to have better quality food than Australia, and everyone gets the same thing. No one misses out.
Given fares in Qantas biz class - for a Monday morning are running at £616 SYD-BNE, £801 SYD-MEL (bth one hour flights) and SYD-PER is a whopping £2029 (yes, one way for a four hour flight) - you'd expect a lot better product.
I don't really get the criticism of euro business. Unless you are really wide, an economy seat with vacant middle is just fine. In fact a bit more room than you'd have on a traditional 2-2 set up. The pitch is a bit rough, but 38 inches for UA and AU first/biz class isn't really that spectacular either. Euro airlines (LH. LX, AF) seem to have better quality food than Australia, and everyone gets the same thing. No one misses out.
I had a look at the 4th of March prices. QF BNE-SYD is $880 in J for the first flight (circa £500). First flight LHR-AMS is £555 for what is a shorter flight time.
Dec 9, 2018, 3:49 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
This experience is not really the norm... except perhaps for very top tier passengers (those in the row 1). For the rest of us, by about row 2 the hot meal choices have run out, leaving maybe only a sandwich or cheese box. And the really slow pace of service means those in row three don't even get a drink or meal until the top of descent (meaning a pretty rushed mela).
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You really should be giving it to QF management, with both barrels, if this is how you’re being treated.
Dec 9, 2018, 3:55 am
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,403
A silver or gold (BA bronze/silver) in row 3 on a 737 is more likely to miss out on the good stuff than not.
Dec 9, 2018, 4:09 am
#23
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,760
Qantas style seating and consequent fare rises would be non viable within Europe at these price points, the service simply wouldn't be offered since it would be more cost effective to go economy service throughout instead. The European market is too competitive for anything much different from the current set-up.
Dec 9, 2018, 4:13 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 198
I have flown QF business a few times on the A330, 737 and 717 across short eastern domestic routes. I find the entire experience (including lounge) to be miles ahead of BA Club Europe (though I've only done it once). It's true that the cheapest CE fares are MUCH cheaper than QF J, though. I don't think anyone actually pays for QF J with their own pocket - it's government or business money.
Dec 9, 2018, 4:26 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OOL/DOH
Programs: QF LTS WP, Avis Pres Club, HH Diam.
Posts: 3,192
Dec 9, 2018, 7:07 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
If one avoids the costly J class seats, it’s good to know that even at the back of the Qantas bus, you’ll still receive a complimentary drink + snack (nature of which varies according to sector). This was the - very enjoyable - light lunch I was offered on a recent QF flight from Alice Springs down to SYD, approx 3 hours
Dec 9, 2018, 9:39 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK. BAEC AAdvantage
Programs: Mucci Des Oeufs Brouilles et des Canards
Posts: 3,671
If one avoids the costly J class seats, it’s good to know that even at the back of the Qantas bus, you’ll still receive a complimentary drink + snack (nature of which varies according to sector). This was the - very enjoyable - light lunch I was offered on a recent QF flight from Alice Springs down to SYD, approx 3 hours
Dec 9, 2018, 9:56 am
#30
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSN
Programs: Delta DM, Bonvoy LT Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,987
Probably a bit off topic but as a Delta person, I flew BA LHR>WAW on BA today on a Club Europe ticket. I’m just under 6’ and of no bigger than average build (check profile for pic - I am not a wide person). The tight confines were ridiculous. The width was mostly fine but my knee hit the seat in front of me and when the person in front of me reclined it was quite awkward to eat my omelette.
The soft product was great. True champagne instead of the syrupy Prosecco we get in the US and I guess Europeans are probably skinnier than Americans so I can live with the width. But the pitch combined with recline of person in front was a terrible hard product. It was an A321. I think it was $220 more than Y and I got free bag, lounge and priority security so I’d do it again since my status is SkyTeam but man, is that really the best pitch they can offer?