BA removes A class on the BOS and DXB routes
Dec 20, 2018, 3:30 am
#76
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BHX
Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)
Posts: 7,327
Genuinely interested.
Dec 20, 2018, 3:40 am
#77
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
F, A, Z etc just determine the availability, for example how many seats BA want to sell in those buckets, but the fare rules (e.g. F1N0C0S0 for LON-JFK in full fare F) is the part that determines how (in-)flexible the fare is, how much it costs to change, if it is refundable etc.
Hope this very, very basic explanation helps
Dec 20, 2018, 7:01 am
#78
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
I agree. It's a perplexing move that won't affect many customers, sure, but for those who it will affect (i.e. me) it will arguably make them reconsider which carrier to use and when. If it's rolled out across the whole network and GUF rules aren't adjusted in a positive way then I'd only intentionally run with BA to Gold (not GL), largely through short haul, then pursue VS Gold through long haul in addition.
The argument is that this A fare removal isn't BA devaluing GUF for First, it's to keep fare buckets in check. I think it's a quiet way to perform one action that happens to introduce another while most people aren't looking. Yes, GUF would still function for Z, but I can do that with Avios anyway - although that's rarely available for the routes/dates I would want, thus the TA use is essential for me.
We'll see how it unfolds. I have three GUF to burn, which I can do in January when hitting GL/CCR and April membership refresh next year if it all holds into place... Here's hoping.
The argument is that this A fare removal isn't BA devaluing GUF for First, it's to keep fare buckets in check. I think it's a quiet way to perform one action that happens to introduce another while most people aren't looking. Yes, GUF would still function for Z, but I can do that with Avios anyway - although that's rarely available for the routes/dates I would want, thus the TA use is essential for me.
We'll see how it unfolds. I have three GUF to burn, which I can do in January when hitting GL/CCR and April membership refresh next year if it all holds into place... Here's hoping.
Dec 20, 2018, 1:59 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
My suspicion is, you will need availability in a lower bucket (which doubles up as a Club World bucket) but your fare lets you upgrade into F.
Then BA can use the I, R, C, D, and J buckets to control space in F as well as the F bucket. A will probably become a Club World bucket in the mix as well.
BA already does something like this for Club World with its "dual inventory" fares.
The GUF thing is cute but I doubt is a driver for such a complex change. It would be easier just to disallow TAs from doing GUFs or start publishing the Z inventory (as they also started doing).
Dec 21, 2018, 2:30 am
#80
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: BHX
Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)
Posts: 7,327
I'd agree with you that this seems like a big effort to deal with what must a drop in the ocean with regard to problems BA have. I think there must be more to it than just a GUF exercise.
What this will do for me is mean I'll need an extra Joker each year - so I either need to reassess my flying entirely or push for 6k TPs. At this point it will likely be the latter; but once I hit GfL that will be a very different story.
Dec 21, 2018, 6:23 am
#81
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
Think of an instant upgrade fare as is common in North America.
My suspicion is, you will need availability in a lower bucket (which doubles up as a Club World bucket) but your fare lets you upgrade into F.
Then BA can use the I, R, C, D, and J buckets to control space in F as well as the F bucket. A will probably become a Club World bucket in the mix as well.
BA already does something like this for Club World with its "dual inventory" fares.
The GUF thing is cute but I doubt is a driver for such a complex change. It would be easier just to disallow TAs from doing GUFs or start publishing the Z inventory (as they also started doing).
My suspicion is, you will need availability in a lower bucket (which doubles up as a Club World bucket) but your fare lets you upgrade into F.
Then BA can use the I, R, C, D, and J buckets to control space in F as well as the F bucket. A will probably become a Club World bucket in the mix as well.
BA already does something like this for Club World with its "dual inventory" fares.
The GUF thing is cute but I doubt is a driver for such a complex change. It would be easier just to disallow TAs from doing GUFs or start publishing the Z inventory (as they also started doing).
Dec 21, 2018, 12:37 pm
#82
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA (EP), Hilton (Diamond), Marriott Bonvoy (Titanium)
Posts: 8,937
Hypothetically, BA could do the former (forbid TAs from processing GUFs). Upgrading would then be a two-step process for those needing to book via TA: first book and ticket an itinerary, then call BA to apply the GUFs. That's how it works, for example, with AA SWUs: After a TA issues a ticket, AA takes over the record and applies the SWU to upgrade. It's a hassle, so it's good that BA doesn't seem to be going down that path.
Dec 22, 2018, 2:33 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Dec 22, 2018, 9:43 am
#84
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
Yes in affect DIF, but there will be inventory numbers attached to them just they wont actually be used to book into. On shorthaul additional price points have been around since the start of the year. On shorthaul the trigger classes used were W E T P. Your flight would never book into W E T or P but say a V class fare where you got discount because they were available the letter shows as the second digit in the fare basis. A VZOR fare basis would become VPZOR VTZOR VEZOR or VWZOR depending which is available.
Dec 30, 2018, 5:39 am
#85
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL & CCR, GFL
Posts: 494
I U'dUA over the phone on the BOS route, and although the flight is confirmed in First, the selling class stayed at 'I' on the ticket and in the App. It didn't change to 'Z' as I've come to expect when I do this, though the ExpertFlyer stats did remove one of the two Z seats available. Not sure if it's related.
Jan 7, 2019, 9:33 pm
#87
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 28
Previously TAs booked into A because thats all that was available to them. BA have now started publishing Z availability via the GDS for the routes where A has been removed, therefore it would appear that the new procedure is going to be that TAs book into Z award availability just like BA do. Petrus' scenario is the much more likely outcome of this than TAs booking into F.
I tried to upgrade from J to F using a GUF on DXB to LHR using Propeller and was told this today:
Unfortunately, there is no way to upgrade DXB sectors to First at the moment, as part of (annoying) changes BA are experimenting in which apply to LHR DXB LHR and LHR BOS LHR sectors
Feb 28, 2019, 5:29 am
#88
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Newcastle
Programs: BA GGL/CCR
Posts: 26
It appears that BA has pulled availability in paid F for most Heathrow-originating BA107 (daytime) flights LHR->DXB from around 8th October 2019, while continuing to sell paid F on the BA107 if originating at regional airports such as NCL, MAN etc. They really are experimenting!
Revenue management is refusing to allow space release on that flight for dates I wanted (even though nobody has used space release on them, and even starting at a regional airport). I'm aware of the lack of A class now, but also apparently that space release may still be requested. It was suggested by GGL that I ask for a night flight instead. However having just taken one of the night flights in F on that route with my family and had a particularly unpleasant experience with a drunk and insulting man sat behind my 10-year-old daughter (meaning nobody got any sleep, and the guy was in that state on boarding), the family is quite reasonably not on for that again.
Alas I needed 4 seats, and only 3 A-class available to AUH as an alternative. Best I wait, I think!
Revenue management is refusing to allow space release on that flight for dates I wanted (even though nobody has used space release on them, and even starting at a regional airport). I'm aware of the lack of A class now, but also apparently that space release may still be requested. It was suggested by GGL that I ask for a night flight instead. However having just taken one of the night flights in F on that route with my family and had a particularly unpleasant experience with a drunk and insulting man sat behind my 10-year-old daughter (meaning nobody got any sleep, and the guy was in that state on boarding), the family is quite reasonably not on for that again.
Alas I needed 4 seats, and only 3 A-class available to AUH as an alternative. Best I wait, I think!
Feb 28, 2019, 5:36 am
#89
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,227
There is a rumour that this flight will switch to an A350 without F. We shall see. I have just used a Lloyds upgrade voucher to go book J to Dubai in Feb 2020 for 52k Avios so will happily accept UD 747 or ‘new next generation Club World’ on the A350...
Knowing my luck it’ll be an Air Belgium A340!
Knowing my luck it’ll be an Air Belgium A340!
Feb 28, 2019, 5:53 am
#90
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,657
It appears that BA has pulled availability in paid F for most Heathrow-originating BA107 (daytime) flights LHR->DXB from around 8th October 2019, while continuing to sell paid F on the BA107 if originating at regional airports such as NCL, MAN etc. They really are experimenting!
Revenue management is refusing to allow space release on that flight for dates I wanted (even though nobody has used space release on them, and even starting at a regional airport). I'm aware of the lack of A class now, but also apparently that space release may still be requested. It was suggested by GGL that I ask for a night flight instead. However having just taken one of the night flights in F on that route with my family and had a particularly unpleasant experience with a drunk and insulting man sat behind my 10-year-old daughter (meaning nobody got any sleep, and the guy was in that state on boarding), the family is quite reasonably not on for that again.
Alas I needed 4 seats, and only 3 A-class available to AUH as an alternative. Best I wait, I think!
Revenue management is refusing to allow space release on that flight for dates I wanted (even though nobody has used space release on them, and even starting at a regional airport). I'm aware of the lack of A class now, but also apparently that space release may still be requested. It was suggested by GGL that I ask for a night flight instead. However having just taken one of the night flights in F on that route with my family and had a particularly unpleasant experience with a drunk and insulting man sat behind my 10-year-old daughter (meaning nobody got any sleep, and the guy was in that state on boarding), the family is quite reasonably not on for that again.
Alas I needed 4 seats, and only 3 A-class available to AUH as an alternative. Best I wait, I think!