Rumour: T5 ticket desks to close
Dec 14, 18, 6:10 am
#46
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
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Even before this is implemented, BA have shown that they don't really know how to handle people in LHR T5.
The last time I flew from there, a few weeks ago, I wanted to drop off a bag using the automated machines. They had one person standing guard who basically took people at random out of a scrum and asked to see passport and boarding pass. This meant people standing there, putting their bags down, sorting out mobile boarding passes etc. A total mess. No proper queue. And as there was only that person they'd abandon the throng of people to help those whose machines decided not to work.
At least when that happened there was no-one to check so people could just get in and use the other machines.
The last time I flew from there, a few weeks ago, I wanted to drop off a bag using the automated machines. They had one person standing guard who basically took people at random out of a scrum and asked to see passport and boarding pass. This meant people standing there, putting their bags down, sorting out mobile boarding passes etc. A total mess. No proper queue. And as there was only that person they'd abandon the throng of people to help those whose machines decided not to work.
At least when that happened there was no-one to check so people could just get in and use the other machines.
Dec 14, 18, 6:18 am
#47
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I don't think it needs a ticket agent specifically to do a FIM style transaction. But I doubt the machines will do anything more than keep people on BA metal. If the underlying ticket was 001 issued (AA) then I suspect that will also need human assistance but again not always a ticket agent.
Dec 14, 18, 6:37 am
#48
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I don't think it needs a ticket agent specifically to do a FIM style transaction. But I doubt the machines will do anything more than keep people on BA metal. If the underlying ticket was 001 issued (AA) then I suspect that will also need human assistance but again not always a ticket agent.
Dec 14, 18, 6:47 am
#49
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This is where the terminology gets important: the ticket agent role, which is staffed at particular locations around T5, is going. So there are some such positions located in Zone A, Zone H and Zone J (First Wing), Galleries Club South, T5B and T5C (part time), Flight Connections, UK Flight Connections. But the check-in Customer Service agent role isn't going, so there will continue to have staff to help customers. Outside Premium channels, the number of Customer Service agents has fallen sharply downwards in the last few years. At Flight Connections they are hoping that that some/most of the queue will be handled via the machines, and there will be Rover agents to assist users, but there will still be people at the desk to help out problem cases. They are also rolling out those white trolleys with printers that you may have seen in T5 landside - I imagine these will be deployed airside in times of strife. Where it is ticketing related that technology won't solve then they'll have to call up someone rather than rely on a colleague along the desk. Some of the more regular ticketing tasks are being taught to BA agents (and many of the older hands know it anyway), there is some cynicism about whether this is sufficiently in-depth. Above is based on what I've picked up from talking to agents, so it may not be fully accurate, but that's my understanding.
Dec 14, 18, 7:21 am
#50
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
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This is where the terminology gets important: the ticket agent role, which is staffed at particular locations around T5, is going. So there are some such positions located in Zone A, Zone H and Zone J (First Wing), Galleries Club South, T5B and T5C (part time), Flight Connections, UK Flight Connections. But the check-in Customer Service agent role isn't going, so there will continue to have staff to help customers. Outside Premium channels, the number of Customer Service agents has fallen sharply downwards in the last few years. At Flight Connections they are hoping that that some/most of the queue will be handled via the machines, and there will be Rover agents to assist users, but there will still be people at the desk to help out problem cases. They are also rolling out those white trolleys with printers that you may have seen in T5 landside - I imagine these will be deployed airside in times of strife. Where it is ticketing related that technology won't solve then they'll have to call up someone rather than rely on a colleague along the desk. Some of the more regular ticketing tasks are being taught to BA agents (and many of the older hands know it anyway), there is some cynicism about whether this is sufficiently in-depth. Above is based on what I've picked up from talking to agents, so it may not be fully accurate, but that's my understanding.
For those who are currently ticket trained, and will remain, are they being allowed to use their "skill", or is that going to be verboten in the interests of simplicity i.e. cost-cutting.
Dec 14, 18, 8:01 am
#51
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This is where the terminology gets important: the ticket agent role, which is staffed at particular locations around T5, is going. So there are some such positions located in Zone A, Zone H and Zone J (First Wing), Galleries Club South, T5B and T5C (part time), Flight Connections, UK Flight Connections. But the check-in Customer Service agent role isn't going, so there will continue to have staff to help customers. Outside Premium channels, the number of Customer Service agents has fallen sharply downwards in the last few years. At Flight Connections they are hoping that that some/most of the queue will be handled via the machines, and there will be Rover agents to assist users, but there will still be people at the desk to help out problem cases. They are also rolling out those white trolleys with printers that you may have seen in T5 landside - I imagine these will be deployed airside in times of strife. Where it is ticketing related that technology won't solve then they'll have to call up someone rather than rely on a colleague along the desk. Some of the more regular ticketing tasks are being taught to BA agents (and many of the older hands know it anyway), there is some cynicism about whether this is sufficiently in-depth. Above is based on what I've picked up from talking to agents, so it may not be fully accurate, but that's my understanding.
Dec 14, 18, 8:21 am
#52
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The machines have been the area to the left of the photo for many months now. The desk is still there too, and staff are in attendance but for normal reprinting of boarding passes (etc) the idea is that people will use the machines, bearing in mind Reaccom will have moved bookings automatically. None of this is new. What is new is that the specific ticketing role won't exist anymore on that desk, and if there are just a few difficult cases then that probably won't make much difference, the other agents will resolve matter or call up if necessary. The risk is that the system won't cope very well with mass irrops, but there again if Reaccom has worked most passengers can be dealt with via the machines, allowing focus on the more difficult cases.
Dec 14, 18, 8:27 am
#53
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Is the automatic Reaccom going to become smarter, in particular handling connections?
We get many reports in this forum of a cancelled flight being rebooked to an impossible connection, because Reaccom only looks at one segment and not at the transitive effects on the whole itinerary.
We then get further reports at the originating airport of people being told "Go to Heathrow, they'll sort you out there" by which time available seats have deteriorated further and delays become longer.
If this is to be automated, then the automated reaccommodation has to: rebook cancellations and serious delays (to another earlier flight); rebook connecting flights; rebook onto alternate carriers to avoid long (next day) delays where possible; inform the passenger by any means possible.
Everything I hear and experience about BA's auto-reaccom shows it is far from this, both in implementation and in design.
We get many reports in this forum of a cancelled flight being rebooked to an impossible connection, because Reaccom only looks at one segment and not at the transitive effects on the whole itinerary.
We then get further reports at the originating airport of people being told "Go to Heathrow, they'll sort you out there" by which time available seats have deteriorated further and delays become longer.
If this is to be automated, then the automated reaccommodation has to: rebook cancellations and serious delays (to another earlier flight); rebook connecting flights; rebook onto alternate carriers to avoid long (next day) delays where possible; inform the passenger by any means possible.
Everything I hear and experience about BA's auto-reaccom shows it is far from this, both in implementation and in design.
Dec 14, 18, 8:33 am
#54
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The machines have been the area to the left of the photo for many months now. The desk is still there too, and staff are in attendance but for normal reprinting of boarding passes (etc) the idea is that people will use the machines, bearing in mind Reaccom will have moved bookings automatically. None of this is new. What is new is that the specific ticketing role won't exist anymore on that desk, and if there are just a few difficult cases then that probably won't make much difference, the other agents will resolve matter or call up if necessary. The risk is that the system won't cope very well with mass irrops, but there again if Reaccom has worked most passengers can be dealt with via the machines, allowing focus on the more difficult cases.
(August I think)Thank you for the reply.
I am not a machine fan even for regular check-in, Imagine how much I do not like the idea for rebookings & co.
Dec 14, 18, 8:37 am
#55
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And that is the million dollar question. From what I've seen so far, it works well pushing a WT traveller on to the next WT seat available. And that certainly handles most people most of the time. Just we aren't "most people"!
Dec 14, 18, 9:02 am
#56
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Um, the machines have been there since March. Just not switched on. Personally I would go to a machine first, particularly if the App has rebooked you via Reaccom. If you get stuck then I suspect a Rover agent would sort out your issues, as happens in landside already.
*I am, I know... can't help it sometimes.
Last edited by Lefly; Dec 15, 18 at 1:12 am Reason: add
Dec 14, 18, 4:55 pm
#57
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Much of what has been put across here doesn't give a true picture. The proposed change does not remove all ticketing and impacts only those whose contracts were specifically designed around handling of cash, manual documents, etc and based on work that doesn't exist due to changes in the industry. In addition, those on these contracts tend to either "work down" on check-in or hosting or based at ticketing/rebooking positions. Ticketing agents on newer contracts are not impacted as their contracts are designed to be more flexible and they can in theory cover any role plus ticketing based on current industry practices.
The letter given to staff is the start of a consultation period. This allows both sides to look at all possible options. There is a current programme to upskill all agents with the ability to move customers onto other flights in disruption using tools built into FLY and JFE. There is already evidence that some of this is having positive impact as was seen recently when fog disruption resulted in cancellations and heavy delays. Customers were assisted much quicker than in the past and the build up of passengers wasn't to the extent that we might have seen in the past with the same level of disruption. From what was said, there were no queues of disrupted customers by around 8pm, where in the past we would have had queues for hours after. Much of the assistance was by those recently upskilled. If this continues and can be built on then hopefully in larger disruption we should continue to see this on a larger scale with similar results with a much bigger number of staff being able to assist.
This is where the main requirement is these days with a lot smaller requirement for these complex transactions. I suspect that what will come out of the consultation is some form of support to continue to handle these complex transactions either by having a couple people at a set location or available via telephone in an office or as a roving agent. While I am not involved in these discussions, given how agreement was reached regarding changes the way the check-in/gate agents on older contracts was achieved to allow more flexibility and secured their jobs, while allowing anyone who wanted to leave to do so, I would expect similar for this group.
The letter given to staff is the start of a consultation period. This allows both sides to look at all possible options. There is a current programme to upskill all agents with the ability to move customers onto other flights in disruption using tools built into FLY and JFE. There is already evidence that some of this is having positive impact as was seen recently when fog disruption resulted in cancellations and heavy delays. Customers were assisted much quicker than in the past and the build up of passengers wasn't to the extent that we might have seen in the past with the same level of disruption. From what was said, there were no queues of disrupted customers by around 8pm, where in the past we would have had queues for hours after. Much of the assistance was by those recently upskilled. If this continues and can be built on then hopefully in larger disruption we should continue to see this on a larger scale with similar results with a much bigger number of staff being able to assist.
This is where the main requirement is these days with a lot smaller requirement for these complex transactions. I suspect that what will come out of the consultation is some form of support to continue to handle these complex transactions either by having a couple people at a set location or available via telephone in an office or as a roving agent. While I am not involved in these discussions, given how agreement was reached regarding changes the way the check-in/gate agents on older contracts was achieved to allow more flexibility and secured their jobs, while allowing anyone who wanted to leave to do so, I would expect similar for this group.
Dec 14, 18, 6:16 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,187
A couple of comments:
I find it funny that anyone at McKinsey thinks they can opine on the airline industry, once upon they came up witha plan for an airline to become the number one in Europe. It was the Swissair plan, Swissair followed it to the letter, look what happened with them!
I have always been surprised that BA regular check-in agents at LHR have had no skills to do basic things, such as collect change fees, etc and would send you off to the ticket desk, I found simple things like these to be a real waste of time.........
That being said, in the European context, not having a ticket desk will result in lots of problems and disasters in the future...
I find it funny that anyone at McKinsey thinks they can opine on the airline industry, once upon they came up witha plan for an airline to become the number one in Europe. It was the Swissair plan, Swissair followed it to the letter, look what happened with them!
I have always been surprised that BA regular check-in agents at LHR have had no skills to do basic things, such as collect change fees, etc and would send you off to the ticket desk, I found simple things like these to be a real waste of time.........
That being said, in the European context, not having a ticket desk will result in lots of problems and disasters in the future...
Dec 14, 18, 8:45 pm
#59
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Has a new Amadeus feature made these machines possible? Maybe coincidence in timing but Cathay has announced a chatbot to assist in irrops rebooking:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...3845-vera.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cath...3845-vera.html
Dec 15, 18, 5:20 am
#60
Join Date: Dec 2009
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There are a lot of companies offering chatbot interfaces. If you can specify an action API on a service, to get info and perform actions (a REST API or similar, I'm you can do it with XML crap if you want) then they will provide the language recognition, translation, and so on. Chatbot as a service is a product you can buy.
So if you have a simple information and change interface, like that required for a kiosk, you can get someone to add chatbot to that.
Compare a kiosk interface:
"Scan your boarding pass" ... "Your flight has been cancelled. The next flight to your destination is ... Is this acceptable Y/N?" "N... The next alternative is ..., is this acceptable Y/N?" "Y..." "Please take your boarding pass and proceed through security checkpoint B".
with some chatbot interface
"Hi, I'm the Elbonian Airways assistant, how can I help?"
"My flight is cancelled!!"
"I'm sorry about that. Let's try to get you on your way. May I have your record locator please?"
"DGEGWF"
"what is your name?"
"Bob The Builder?"
"Hello Dr Bob, we can offer you the next flight at 03:20 to Capital City. Would that be OK?"
"yeah alright"
"Your flight has been rebooked. Please refresh the app to see your new boarding pass".
Same info and booking interface, just a chatty skin on top.
So if you have a simple information and change interface, like that required for a kiosk, you can get someone to add chatbot to that.
Compare a kiosk interface:
"Scan your boarding pass" ... "Your flight has been cancelled. The next flight to your destination is ... Is this acceptable Y/N?" "N... The next alternative is ..., is this acceptable Y/N?" "Y..." "Please take your boarding pass and proceed through security checkpoint B".
with some chatbot interface
"Hi, I'm the Elbonian Airways assistant, how can I help?"
"My flight is cancelled!!"
"I'm sorry about that. Let's try to get you on your way. May I have your record locator please?"
"DGEGWF"
"what is your name?"
"Bob The Builder?"
"Hello Dr Bob, we can offer you the next flight at 03:20 to Capital City. Would that be OK?"
"yeah alright"
"Your flight has been rebooked. Please refresh the app to see your new boarding pass".
Same info and booking interface, just a chatty skin on top.
Last edited by flatlander; Dec 15, 18 at 5:32 am
