AA wants to move to T5 LHR
Dec 4, 2018, 5:54 am
#46
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,103
I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread but the main factor would be money. Also if you go for it, might as well dig the tunnel all the way to T1 to future-proof it. The marginal amount of money extra wouldn't be a huge deal. (Side note, my employer would likely make money on that project so I'm all for it)
Dec 4, 2018, 6:02 am
#47
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London
Programs: Qantas Platinum, United Premier 1K, HSBC Premier, AVIS President's Club, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 100
Because the government would label it Hexit and remind BA and HAL that it's "what the people want".
Dec 4, 2018, 6:07 am
#48
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold; FB Silver; SPG; IHG Gold
Posts: 2,980
AA must be the biggest foreign operator (by pax number) at LHR? A move to T5 would be very significant.
Although T3 is showing its age, I think BAEC elites enjoy it because of the lounge options, which, coupled with shorter travel time to central London, more than makes up for lack of First Wing. I certainly like it.
I've never done a T3 to T5, but nobody has much good to say about it, so if there were a way of significantly improving that side of things then everyone would be happier.
Although T3 is showing its age, I think BAEC elites enjoy it because of the lounge options, which, coupled with shorter travel time to central London, more than makes up for lack of First Wing. I certainly like it.
I've never done a T3 to T5, but nobody has much good to say about it, so if there were a way of significantly improving that side of things then everyone would be happier.
Dec 4, 2018, 6:15 am
#49
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London
Programs: Qantas Platinum, United Premier 1K, HSBC Premier, AVIS President's Club, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 100
A significant proportion (I'd say as much as 3/4) of AA's transatlantic flights are actually operated by BA so having all of them fly out of the same terminal would probably result in fewer confused American tourists. I can see why AA would be keen on it, BA not so much.
Dec 4, 2018, 6:25 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Krakow
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In terms of overcrowding the lounges, my thinking was build a d concourse specifically for AA and put an AA lounge in there so there was no additional burden on the existing lounges.
Dec 4, 2018, 8:49 am
#51
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,103
Dec 4, 2018, 9:27 am
#52
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
Posts: 1,506
There are better lounges in T3 - just BA don't run them. ;-)
Dec 4, 2018, 9:31 am
#53
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: AA PLTPRO; DL GLD
Posts: 146
On their busiest day they run 4 A333s (291pax ea..), 3 788s (226 pax ea.), 5 77Ws (304 ea.) and 6 772s (273 ea.) for a total of 5,000 pax on the nose.
Using the high-density configured A388s on Emirates (517 pax ea.) is 3,201 pax.
Dec 4, 2018, 9:35 am
#54
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Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
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The best way to improve the connections experience all round would be to eliminate unnecessary security screening for transiting passengers, starting with those countries who have security screening that is in line with UK/EU standards.
How about putting all BA flights from trusted countries (such as EU, USA, CAN, SIN, AUS, JPN, ICE, RSA, ISR) into T5 and the rest to T3. This would mean than any transiting passengers arriving from those countries would be in one place and would not have to re-clear security at LHR as the baggage screening at their original departure point would be deemed sufficient for the UK. Arriving passengers from these countries would be decanted into a passport control area and then simply walk into T5A or get on a sterile transfer bus to another terminal.
So T5 would gain 19 destinations like GIB, KEF, CPT, LAS, DEN, MIA, VIE, HEL and BCN.
T3 would get an additional 39 destinations including NAS, HKG, BOM, HND, DME, DXB, BKK and IST
Of course it is doubtful that T3 could cope with adding all those mainly LH routes. But if we then moved fellow IAG company EI (DUB) plus oneworld members AY (HEL), QF (3 routes), JL (HND) and AA (8 routes) into T5, this might make a bit of space elsewhere.
AMS implemented a segregated arrivals process in 2015 (only bags from non-trusted countries are scanned on arrival) and it is now a thousand times better than before.
Of course I recognise that this is an armchair CEO idea and that the current T3/T5 route split reflects the amount of transiting traffic but this idea would make life a lot easier for the majority of transiting passengers and enable BA to reduce the T5-T5 MCT by 10 minutes or so. Naturally a few extra transit buses might be needed......
How about putting all BA flights from trusted countries (such as EU, USA, CAN, SIN, AUS, JPN, ICE, RSA, ISR) into T5 and the rest to T3. This would mean than any transiting passengers arriving from those countries would be in one place and would not have to re-clear security at LHR as the baggage screening at their original departure point would be deemed sufficient for the UK. Arriving passengers from these countries would be decanted into a passport control area and then simply walk into T5A or get on a sterile transfer bus to another terminal.
So T5 would gain 19 destinations like GIB, KEF, CPT, LAS, DEN, MIA, VIE, HEL and BCN.
T3 would get an additional 39 destinations including NAS, HKG, BOM, HND, DME, DXB, BKK and IST
Of course it is doubtful that T3 could cope with adding all those mainly LH routes. But if we then moved fellow IAG company EI (DUB) plus oneworld members AY (HEL), QF (3 routes), JL (HND) and AA (8 routes) into T5, this might make a bit of space elsewhere.
AMS implemented a segregated arrivals process in 2015 (only bags from non-trusted countries are scanned on arrival) and it is now a thousand times better than before.
Of course I recognise that this is an armchair CEO idea and that the current T3/T5 route split reflects the amount of transiting traffic but this idea would make life a lot easier for the majority of transiting passengers and enable BA to reduce the T5-T5 MCT by 10 minutes or so. Naturally a few extra transit buses might be needed......
Dec 4, 2018, 10:19 am
#55
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,103
If LHR wants to remain competitive as a European hub into the future, they're going to have to have a more seamless connecting experience that trusts security from other European countries, the USA, etc. Of course, I never underestimate the UK Government's poor coordination of its functions and their ability to cut off its nose to spite its face and any talk of coordinated industrial, commercial, tourism, etc, policies is quickly undermined by contrary policies and obstruction from some other tentacle of government.
However, even then, trying to divide routes into those where passengers require security and those that don't is going to be futile, since there's a mix of people from various origins connecting onto any flight. In particular, with BA's Indian and Asian connections there are people from the EU, the non-EU, the USA, and South America connecting into those Indian and Asian flights. SImilarly for flights to the USA.
Putting the same destinations, or the same countries, into the same terminal within Oneworld is far more sensible - that's why HEL is from T3, and I expect why AA would like to operate their flights from T5 because then they're co-located with the BA flights to the USA.
If UK government and Heathrow Airport had their act in order, there would be an inter terminal train airside between T5A, T5B, T5C, T3 and T2 and coming from the US, EU, or other trusted countries you would just board the train towards your next destination. T5 for North America, T3 for South America (LATAM), Finland (Finnair), Singapore/Australia (QANTAS), Hong Kong (Cathay), T2 for Aer Lingus. Also, this gives much easier connections between Star Alliance and Oneworld if you want to do that, and easier connections means more traffic and revenue for Heathrow.
(T4 is a harder engineering problem to reach, though you could run an automated people mover round a curve to T4 and then you've got Qatar on the same train for Oneworld purposes).
However, even then, trying to divide routes into those where passengers require security and those that don't is going to be futile, since there's a mix of people from various origins connecting onto any flight. In particular, with BA's Indian and Asian connections there are people from the EU, the non-EU, the USA, and South America connecting into those Indian and Asian flights. SImilarly for flights to the USA.
Putting the same destinations, or the same countries, into the same terminal within Oneworld is far more sensible - that's why HEL is from T3, and I expect why AA would like to operate their flights from T5 because then they're co-located with the BA flights to the USA.
If UK government and Heathrow Airport had their act in order, there would be an inter terminal train airside between T5A, T5B, T5C, T3 and T2 and coming from the US, EU, or other trusted countries you would just board the train towards your next destination. T5 for North America, T3 for South America (LATAM), Finland (Finnair), Singapore/Australia (QANTAS), Hong Kong (Cathay), T2 for Aer Lingus. Also, this gives much easier connections between Star Alliance and Oneworld if you want to do that, and easier connections means more traffic and revenue for Heathrow.
(T4 is a harder engineering problem to reach, though you could run an automated people mover round a curve to T4 and then you've got Qatar on the same train for Oneworld purposes).
Dec 5, 2018, 7:32 am
#56
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RBKC
Programs: AA EXP and Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 3,848
Interesting. Are BA and AA the two biggest airlines (by passenger numbers) at LHR?
Dec 5, 2018, 10:52 am
#58
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, Babylon-on-Thames
Programs: BAEC Blue (back to Earth)
Posts: 1,496
Virgin have 24 wide bodies per day out of LHR, nothing smaller than an A333.
American at 18, United close by at 16 with Delta opetating 8 on their own metal.
Aer Lingus follow close by in terms of passenger volume.
American at 18, United close by at 16 with Delta opetating 8 on their own metal.
Aer Lingus follow close by in terms of passenger volume.
