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BA refuses boarding back to UK despite OK from Immigration Authorities

BA refuses boarding back to UK despite OK from Immigration Authorities

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Old Nov 26, 18, 12:05 am
  #31  
 
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Is it worth getting a train either to Paris or to another European airport and chancing it with another carrier?

The man in seat 61 website will direct you to the best routes. See if you can get to Paris and hope they donít check the date on your ID?
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Old Nov 26, 18, 12:42 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by callum9999 View Post

It irrefutably is BA's fault. The fact that it's also the OP's fault is irrelevant to that point. If BA fulfilled their obligations then he would not be in this mess - period.
BA is behaving rationally and sensibly.

Definitely somebody at BA can take a risk, but its a big risk and opens a door for abuse. Just like a security officer turning a blind eye to an old lady carrying a pair of scissors (it was obviois she was not a terrorist - what was the risk...).

How can BA know that the person is the same person who travelled outbound?

The only evidence is an invalid (expired) ID card and some digital images plus a story. In extremis BA could review CCTV footage and do investigations but still take a risk.

The risk of accepting somebody for carriage to UK from overseas is substantially more than a £3000 fine, potentially (though unlikely) losing BA its delegated authority to bring focumented passengers to UK.

Recommend OP to get new balid documents, or it thry think they can get in, to try other airlines, drive, train...
​​​​​​... Easy to get human to bring docs out if they ate in uk.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:09 am
  #33  
 
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Just buy a one-way with RyanAir or EasyJet and go home.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:10 am
  #34  
 
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You have not been stranded because of BA but your own incompetence.

OP what is your nationality. You simply havenít said and that could have a bearing on how this gets resolved. Why so coy?

Going to the press is never a good idea. Any decent reporter - even those you say you know - will contact BA and the UK and Hungarian immigration authorities to get their side of the story,

And Ďawful airline left me strandedí stories are ten a penny and often donít get the sympathy from the public you think you may deserve. If you think FT is a hard crowd the general public is much, much more judgmental.

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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:14 am
  #35  
 
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Interesting to note the differences between this version of the OP's story and the version posted on another forum where he openly admitted he knew in advance of the trip that his EU ID was expired but it was "too much of a pain to renew".
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:18 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by snaxmuppet View Post
Just buy a one-way with RyanAir or EasyJet and go home.
they still require you to produce a valid travel document which the OP does not have because (a) his passport is at an unnamed embassy and (b) his ID card has expired.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:19 am
  #37  
 
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BA would quite rightly decline to comment on an individual situation, as there are privacy issues around disclosure of details. This is often why it's possible to spin up "they done me wrong" stories from non-issues, it's stock in trade for tabloid journalism.

That said, this is classic blame transference. If you travel with invalid ID, at some point someone may notice. Any checking process is prone to error at some level of probability. The root cause is the invalid ID, not the fact that you get through one gate by luck leaving you with problems at the next.

The advice to try other carriers is poor. LCCs will probably be extremely diligent, since changing document details is a revenue generator for some but also because the impact of a fine is greater proportionally. The OP needs to obtain emergency authorisation for travel.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:20 am
  #38  
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There is a Border Force liaison officer in LHR and yes they do talk with airlines about problem cases. This sometimes results in a reference number being issued, or the reference of the officer concerned, alternatively the airline is informed that the Chief Immigration Officer is expecting the case. There is a specific aspect of Freedom of Movement that it does still apply even if the identity documentation has expired, so I too doubt there would be an issue when you got to London, other than a long delay while bona fides are checked. However I think relying on this process (at any stage) isn't great and given where you are now, it's best to get the ID sorted properly. BA have an absolute right to stop you from travelling, and I doubt any other airlines - who may be handled by the same agents of course - would make it any easier.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:28 am
  #39  
 
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I have to doubt the wisdom of trying to travel without proper, valid, documentation. Seems to me the OP is kicking up a stink over this because he is angry at not being able to get home and wants to blame someone else other than himself for not organising himself to have the correct documents. In which case it would be foolish to go to the press who will ask these questions, find it was his own fault and make him look a complete fool!

A lesson for us all though... have the correct, valid, documentation.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:30 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by snaxmuppet View Post
Just buy a one-way with RyanAir or EasyJet and go home.
Ha! If he/she tried to get on with an expired card with FR / U2, it would be a case of "This Id is expired, next in line!".
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:30 am
  #41  
 
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I don't really follow your line of argument.

Originally Posted by flyerkit View Post
Definitely somebody at BA can take a risk, but its a big risk and opens a door for abuse.
Why does it open the door for abuse? And how would it be a risk if BA had spoken to immigration and cleared it in advance?

Originally Posted by flyerkit View Post
How can BA know that the person is the same person who travelled outbound?

The only evidence is an invalid (expired) ID card and some digital images plus a story. In extremis BA could review CCTV footage and do investigations but still take a risk.
What relevance is that? There are no exit controls from the UK, all that matters here is whether the OP can prove they are entitled to return to UK.

Although you might well think it was careless of BA to allow travel out with an expired ID.

Originally Posted by flyerkit View Post
The risk of accepting somebody for carriage to UK from overseas is substantially more than a £3000 fine, potentially (though unlikely) losing BA its delegated authority to bring focumented passengers to UK.
According to Gov.uk it's £2000. And we all know that a situation like this would not result in the rest of what you say.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...rs-are-charged

I do agree this is largely down to the OP, and that the OP's DYKWIA attitude doesn't help, but I don't see the point in inventing things which are not really relevant.

Finally is it not the case that Article 5 of EC38/2004 states that "where a Union citizen......does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence."

In other words is the OP not able to prove via other means that he is entitled to free movement?
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:38 am
  #42  
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Should the OP be Italian, and with their old style CIE ID card without biometrics, it is very difficult to establish bona fides. The Italian computer system leaves a lot to be desired and biometrics started in 2016. It's only been in the last few weeks that renewed CIE cards have all had biometrics from the larger municipalities and CIE issued at smaller locations and overseas still don't have them.

The irony is that if the OP and wife lived in Ireland, the OP's wife could also exert her Freedom of Movement rights on his behalf.......
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:39 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by callum9999 View Post
It irrefutably is BA's fault. The fact that it's also the OP's fault is irrelevant to that point. If BA fulfilled their obligations then he would not be in this mess - period.
Which obligation are you referring to here specifically? Airlines check that passengers have proper documentation for the destination country as an obligation to themselves - to make sure that they are not fined by that country if a passenger does not have proper documents. Airlines do not do the passenger's job of making sure that the passenger does have proper documentation to enter any particular country. It is solely the passenger's responsibility. As it is to ensure that they have enough money, insurance. warm clothes etc. That the airline permits someone to board a plane does not mean anything. People are refused entry even when airlines are satisfied that they have proper documentation - that does not make airlines in any way liable towards the passenger for bringing such a properly documented passenger to the border. Again, let's be clear here - document checks that airlines perform are not for the benefit of the passenger and are not some form of an extra check that the passenger must perform before travel. Blaming the airline rather than accepting this for what it is - a very painful lesson - does not help anyone. That BA agent may have missed that the OP did not have proper docs for Hungary is between BA and Hungarian immigration authorities. And if we're talking about any obligations, then BA did not fulfill its obligation to itself and the agent may have exposed BA to a fine.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 1:41 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by frozenheart View Post
Interesting to note the differences between this version of the OP's story and the version posted on another forum where he openly admitted he knew in advance of the trip that his EU ID was expired but it was "too much of a pain to renew".
I'm sure Sky would be interested in that angle....

Looks like OPs case is unravelling a bit.
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Old Nov 26, 18, 2:06 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by SQTraveller View Post
Good luck OP.

I feel your frustration, but I kinda feel you should have had your passport anyway,
Erm, why? A national ID card is a perfectly valid form of identification for travel when a visa isn't required, especially intra-EU. Just because the UK doesn't do ID cards doesn't mean that these aren't any good I'm French and have both an ID card and a passport - I do tend to use my passport when travelling regardless so that I can use the e-gates but that's the only reason. When my mum comes over from France for a visit, she only takes her ID card and has done so for the last 25 years.

As for entry to the UK with expired documents for EU nationals... From https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...m/index_en.htm (bold is mine)
"All EU citizens must show a valid national identity card or passport when entering and leaving the UK. But if you cannot produce such a document, the authorities must give you every chance to get one within a reasonable time limit or produce other satisfactory evidence of your identity and citizenship.

So BA were being a tad over-cautious there - like it or not, the UK is still in the EU at least for a few months yet...

ETA: I would not knowingly travel on an expired ID though. The now stupidly long timescales for renewal are a PITA. Many years ago, I used to be able to rock up at the French consulate and walk out with my shiny new ID card or passport on the same day; now I have to book an appointment and it takes a good 4 to 6 weeks before I can go and pick up the new stuff. The process will obviously differ by country.

Last edited by Irreverent Medusa; Nov 26, 18 at 2:16 am
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