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BA refuses boarding back to UK despite OK from Immigration Authorities

BA refuses boarding back to UK despite OK from Immigration Authorities

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Old Nov 27, 18, 6:38 am
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
I fear you are the one who is confused. There is no need for an emergency travel document - EC38/2004 makes that quite clear.

All he needs to do is meet the requirements of EU law which allows the traveller to "corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence".

UK immigration staff can advise BA to let him travel if he can provide such evidence.
it’s academic now as he has it sorted, however my point was solely concerned with the practicalities of the situation. The various EU rules quoted are undoubtedly correct and whilst I’m also sure he would meet the requirements of EU entry should he get to that stage (assuming he’s telling the truth), he hasn’t got there because he’s still in Budapest.

All the theoretical knowledge and pontification about EU directives is of little use when U.K. immigration have refused to provide authorisation to BA and BA have refused to allow him to travel. Therefore another, more practical, method needed to be tried such as another travel document, getting his birth certificate or passport to him, hence my suggestion.

As it it turned out, despite the OP challenging the airline the only effective method was to have his passport delivered to him to enable him to travel.

Hopefully he will be home shortly.



Last edited by Saladman; Nov 27, 18 at 6:42 am Reason: Punctuation seems to have gone awry.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 6:59 am
  #152  
 
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I am glad that this is sorted for the OP. I have my suspicions that the BUD BA agents contacted their immigration advisory line as opposed to the UKBA as the EU directives on free travel should be just thst and whilst it might tske time on arrival in the UK entry shouldn’t be denied.

I mean its it’s not like there’s ever been any other confusion by overseas BA handling staff that appear to have denied passengers boarding London bound flights re requirements to travel such as showing the card used for the booking or anything.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:14 am
  #153  
 
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Only yourself to blame

Andriyko [Yesterday, 5:10 am], succinctly put and exactly to the point. I fully understand OP's frustration but the only one with blame is himself. None of the BA agents or anyone else connected to this story sought to fly without the required documents, aka proof of freedom of movement. OP's expired national ID may have been revoked for some reason.

Last edited by gabbai; Nov 27, 18 at 7:24 am Reason: Clarity
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:46 am
  #154  
 
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Ok the OP did make a royal mess of this by not checking his documentation BUT if I have understood this correctly BA flew him OUT of the country on the first leg of this journey on exactly this expired piece of ID to begin with. That would not have been legal either! Now by doing this BA also violated the rules - this can therefore not totally exonerate them now on the return leg. In reality they F***** p as badly as the OP did and should be doing everything to help their passenger since BA illegally brought a passenger to wherever he is now because they missed the expired document on the exit leg.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:52 am
  #155  
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Originally Posted by moeve View Post
Ok the OP did make a royal mess of this by not checking his documentation BUT if I have understood this correctly BA flew him OUT of the country on the first leg of this journey on exactly this expired piece of ID to begin with. That would not have been legal either! Now by doing this BA also violated the rules - this can therefore not totally exonerate them now on the return leg. In reality they F***** p as badly as the OP did and should be doing everything to help their passenger since BA illegally brought a passenger to wherever he is now because they missed the expired document on the exit leg.
Neither BA nor the OP have done anything illegal or unlawful.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 8:02 am
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by moeve View Post
Ok the OP did make a royal mess of this by not checking his documentation BUT if I have understood this correctly BA flew him OUT of the country on the first leg of this journey on exactly this expired piece of ID to begin with. That would not have been legal either! Now by doing this BA also violated the rules - this can therefore not totally exonerate them now on the return leg. In reality they F***** p as badly as the OP did and should be doing everything to help their passenger since BA illegally brought a passenger to wherever he is now because they missed the expired document on the exit leg.
As I put in slightly different words, that was my thought a bit upthread as well, but as another pointed out, it's possible the document(s) in his possession were acceptable for his destination (Hungary) but not for return to the UK. This is something I think even the best eyes at London wouldn't have necessarily captured on the outbound, as that's not what they're looking for then. And things then got really complicated from there... and though it's correct to say that the OP is basically the responsible party for what happened, I do think it insensitive to suggest that a mistake like this wouldn't be something that he'd be hoping anyone and everyone with possible authority, leniency or influence on the matter would consider helping him out of.

But anyway, it got sorted. With enough inconvenience that I doubt the OP will be making the same error again unless he completely loses his memory.

One thing I do agree with OP and disagree with others is that Yes, it Does matter who BA actually talked with, and what that conversation was like, because that was the moment where this could either have been sorted with a few secure electronic communications, or instead now have taken several days out of the OP and his wife's life to sort it on their own. So I'd like to imagine one would make their best effort indeed to help (I know I would), but we won't know just what happened, or what didn't.



I will edit to add that, although a totally different scenario from the OP's I still remember how grateful I am for what BA ground staff did to help me out of a predicament of my own making a few years ago. My passport had fallen (unknown to me until I looked for it) down - very far down - into one of the spaces you don't see too easily in 1K of the 747. I was on a transit from longhaul (so obviously had my passport when I checked in) to shorthaul europe. Trembling at the flight connection center to explain that I was missing both my onward boarding card and my passport, they calmed me down, explained that I could go through security to the CCR without ID (they just had to reprint my boarding card) and they would send someone onto the aircraft to look for my passport during my rather long connection. This attitude of "we are here to help - don't worry" even when it wasn't clear what the outcome would be is what I remember, and what I wonder (somewhat doubt) to have been present in an admittedly different but similarly unsettling situation of suddenly finding yourself stuck without the documents you either had or thought you had. And awhile later, after I was showered and relaxed, someone in a bright yellow vest appeared in the CCR very proud that he had my passport, because "it was really far down in the seat and hard to get to" but he had done it.
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Last edited by Schultzois; Nov 27, 18 at 8:13 am
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Old Nov 27, 18, 8:34 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by moeve View Post
Now by doing this BA also violated the rules - this can therefore not totally exonerate them now on the return leg. In reality they F***** p as badly as the OP did and should be doing everything to help their passenger since BA illegally brought a passenger to wherever he is now because they missed the expired document on the exit leg.
Not for me to defend BA but this is of course 100% nonsense.

There are no exit controls from UK and OP was admitted to Hungary by local immigration. No rules were broken nor was there anything illegal.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:15 am
  #158  
 
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How about leaving on an entirely different airline? The problem is obviously with the ground crew of BA in Budapest. Also with all the fret over Brexit it's obvious that the British don't want foreigners living in their country that's why they want to leave the European Union. I guarantee you if you were an Englishman or from Scotland or one of the other parts of Britain you would have long gone home without much ado. They are just busting your chops.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:24 am
  #159  
 
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Expired EU ID cards are no longer valid for across border travel for most EU countries. Hungary is one of those who DO NOT ACCEPT expired EU ID cards - I asked just three weeks ago because my German ID card came up for renewal and I was not sure the new one would come in time for my plans next week and like the OP my passport is currently at an Embassy for a visa for another trip.

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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:29 am
  #160  
 
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
Not for me to defend BA but this is of course 100% nonsense.

There are no exit controls from UK and OP was admitted to Hungary by local immigration. No rules were broken nor was there anything illegal.
BA does however specify that your documents need to be valid for travel and Hungry is actually one EU country that is on the list of not accepting expired EU ID cards. Therefore BA flew a passenger to Hungry without the correct documents. The fact that Hungry apparently overlooked the issue as well doesn’t exonerate the airline either. Factually all three screwed up on the incoming trip.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:32 am
  #161  
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Originally Posted by moeve View Post


BA does however specify that your documents need to be valid for travel and Hungry is actually one EU country that is on the list of not accepting expired EU ID cards. Therefore BA flew a passenger to Hungry without the correct documents. The fact that Hungry apparently overlooked the issue as well doesn’t exonerate the airline either. Factually all three screwed up on the incoming trip.
No. The issue was not overlooked by the Hungarian Officer, the officer correctly applied Article 5 of EC3882004 given the circumstances.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 11:26 am
  #162  
 
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Originally Posted by moeve View Post
Expired EU ID cards are no longer valid for across border travel for most EU countries. Hungary is one of those who DO NOT ACCEPT expired EU ID cards - I asked just three weeks ago because my German ID card came up for renewal and I was not sure the new one would come in time for my plans next week and like the OP my passport is currently at an Embassy for a visa for another trip.
Originally Posted by moeve View Post
BA does however specify that your documents need to be valid for travel and Hungry is actually one EU country that is on the list of not accepting expired EU ID cards. Therefore BA flew a passenger to Hungry without the correct documents. The fact that Hungry apparently overlooked the issue as well doesn’t exonerate the airline either. Factually all three screwed up on the incoming trip.
Again this is 100% nonsense. Did you actually read the OP?

It wasnt overlooked by Hungarian officials, to the contrary they picked it up and let the OP in when he produced an emailed copy of his passport. Nothing to do with BA - there are no exit controls on leaving UK.

There is no such list, in fact not to accept the expired ID if the traveller can establish his credentials (which he did with a passport copy) would be contrary to EC directives.

Hopefully the traveller will be back from 'Hungry' by now......I wonder if he is hungry after his ordeal?
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Old Nov 27, 18, 11:37 am
  #163  
 
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Just a quick technical point - the potential fine (Immigration Carriers Liability Act) is NOT dependent on whether or not you are allowed entry; it is a fine for allowing you to travel without the correct documentation (obviously unless prior authorisation is held).
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Old Nov 27, 18, 11:49 am
  #164  
 
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Originally Posted by redrob View Post
Just a quick technical point - the potential fine (Immigration Carriers Liability Act) is NOT dependent on whether or not you are allowed entry; it is a fine for allowing you to travel without the correct documentation (obviously unless prior authorisation is held).
But the fine is not imposed "Where there is evidence that the carrier had acted on the advice of a representative of the United Kingdom Government, and it was reasonable, in the circumstances, for the carrier to rely on that advice."

So if BA had contacted immigration who had agreed entry then there is no financial risk.

See appendix A.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ing-procedures
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Old Nov 27, 18, 1:12 pm
  #165  
 
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But the fine is not imposed "Where there is evidence that the carrier had acted on the advice of a representative of the United Kingdom Government, and it was reasonable, in the circumstances, for the carrier to rely on that advice."

So if BA had contacted immigration who had agreed entry then there is no financial risk.


Yes, I realise that. Hence my caveat "unless prior authorisation is held"

My comment was purely made in response to the OP's (much) earlier comment that BA wouldn't be fined as he would 100% be allowed in..
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