Andriyko

Transfer them to where? How could BA possible know what the OP wanted? What about other passengers who may have also missed their connections? Should BA employ a personal assistant for each and every passenger? Would you pay for that?
There was no avoiding talking to a customer service agent at the flight connections; nor were there any earlier options to leave London.

DYKWIA

At which point you're back to the EC261 argument. BA could not have got the OP back to TLV that evening, so should really be paying out in my opinion. I don't think it's as black and white as some people are maintaining.

However, they'll have to fight for EC261, or go via Israeli version.

simons1

But nonetheless doable, as OP booked the ticket and got there. Expedited connections are not usual but can be done.

It might have been a reasonable expectation that traveller wanted to reach their destination at the earliest opportunity rather than sitting around in a hotel overnight.

There clearly was an earlier option, as OP travelled on it.

As I said earlier I am not saying OP was either right or wrong, just that instead of the usual 'blame the traveller' line the OP should contact the airline about their EC261 position and see what happens.

Andriyko

Who is blaming the traveler? It seems that some are blaming the airline and are coming up with more unreasonable suggestions as to what could/should have been done.
Airlines don't operate on the basis of 'it was doable'. The passenger either meets the MCT or they don't. Fantasizing about how the airline could have helicoptered the passenger to the next flight or stopped the time is not really helpful in the real world. Sometimes one just needs to accept that things don't work out and there is nothing to be done.



which was the next morning and required an overnight stay at a hotel.

Calchas

The MCT is a booking requirement, not a rebooking requirement. It is not relevant in this scenario. It deliberately has slack for handling late arriving flights.

I think few would argue that a reservation on an onward flight should be cancelled the moment the true connection time falls below the MCT on the basis it is impossible to make the connection.

simons1

It wasn't, it was the flight the OP travelled on.

Andriyko

I don't think BA would automatically rebook onto a flight that does not meet MCT, which is why the OP was rebooked onto the earliest service that made sense. And we won't know whether BA would have agreed to rebook the OP onto the LY flight because the OP never asked.

pauldb

Andriyko

If you really really want to find fault with BA then you can of course disregard the realities of air travel. The OP abandoned their luggage and ran to T4 to make the flight. The succeeded (which is good). Still, BA never refused to rebook the OP onto LY, so I am not even sure what this discussion is about now. No one forced the OP to overnight in London. We won't know now whether BA would have said that overnighting was the only option.

corporate-wage-slave

I think it partly relevant in that the Reaccom Module only makes bookings which are MCT viable, and it appears from the OP's posts that Reaccom actually kicked in on their booking. Moreover to be given another airline option there would need to be a communication between BA and LY before accepting the booking, and the reason for the extra interline time is that LY has a specific baggage screening step over and above HAL's screening - something which is well known to those who work in Heathrow. Therefore I can't see any circumstance where BA would have rebooked to LY normally, with checked luggage. However if HBO and perhaps 40 minutes late rather than 58 minutes late, and perhaps if the agent was mindful of the issues in terms of Shabbat timings, then a few quick telephone calls could be made.

Having said that, it is interesting about the timing of the Friday service to TLV, and of course it is more tricky at this time of the year and Hannukah is next weekend. So if I was in charge of BA I would be looking to retime that morning service to 07:15 hrs at least in the winter, and absolutely do everything possible to ensure that service leaves exactly on time every Friday, even if means some rough justice on luggage (etc) and other flights. There is a rather unfortunate tale in the El Al FT forum about a New York to Tel Aviv service last week, where El Al terminated the service in Athens, since delays on departure made it impossible for the service to reach Tel Aviv in time.

More generally, and this comment isn't directed at anyone specifically, we all have to be a little patient and wait for the end of the Sabbath to find out a bit more from the OP, the OP at least has found something better to do than be tied to a keyboard.

Andriyko

In this particular scenario the OP arrived at their final destination with a delay of one hour. There is no compensation for such a minor delay. The OP would have been entitled to compensation had they actually stayed in London. It does matter whether BA would have put the OP onto the LY service because the issue here is that the OP spent their own money to get to TLV. Whether or not BA should reimburse the cost of the LY flight depends whether or not BA insisted that overnighting was the only option. Unfortunately the Reg does not say that passengers should just find their own way (and many here often criticize BA for failing to find hotels for passengers instead asking them to do it themselves) and then seek reimbursement; the responsibility falls onto airlines. Maybe you're right that in this particular situation, by the time the OP spoke with an agent (I don't think there would have been any arguing - BA rebooks passengers onto other airlines with no problem), the only viable option would have been the next morning flight, but we won't know that. It seems that it was not a viable option from the beginning. BA does rebook onto other carriers automatically if it makes sense. I remember being rebooked onto LH when my flight from EWR was delayed for 2 hours (and cabin crew advised me that we were rebooked onto LH), but then by the time we landed we missed that flight as well and were put onto the next morning flight until we talked to an agent and found another solution that got us home on the same day. Here, the system did not rebook the OP onto the LY flight because it was not a viable option. We may hate it that airlines have procedures (like conformance, which people also complain about because they can run and make the flight), but sometimes circumstances work against us.

simons1

Ran from T5 to T4? That must have been a good spectacle.

What the OP actually said is after being handed a hotel voucher and a BP for the next day (so clearly there was some interaction between traveller and airline) the OP then booked and paid for a ticket on LY leaving about an hour later. He then made his own way to T4 arriving in time for final boarding. I don't see running mentioned anywhere.

There was just over 1.5 hours between arrival from NY and the departure of the LY flight, that is sufficient time for a connection between terminals without running, in fact it is the time quoted on BA's own website for connections between terminals. Which suggests instead of handing OP a boarding pass for next day he could have been re-routed on next available flight.

Still a bit of exaggeration all helps a good story I guess.

dylanks

I think it's worth remembering that there is rarely not a significant queue at the flight connections rebooking queue. My guess is that there was a BA agent at the gate who met the OP and others who had missed their connections with new boarding passes and hotel vouchers, but all this agent was able to do was provide what the system had offered for new accommodations. Anything beyond that would require visiting the flight connections area, or taking matters into your own hands. If the OP had waited to talk to an agent at the queue, they would have missed their only option that evening. So I don't see it as the OP refusing to talk to BA, but rather the airline not making sufficient staff available to have no queue for rebookings.

A truly proactive option would have been to have an agent meet the OP, give them the option of BA the next day with hotel voucher, or the alternative airline booking on LY, and a car transfer to T4, with the understanding by the passenger that their bag would not make the connection. And if BA's proposed option had been a downgrade I probably would have declined, but at least I would have been given that option.

This set of options is what AA would probably do at their hub airports, but only for CK, BA GGL members, and international first class passengers.

BA could choose to employ enough staff such that at most times (days with a normal amount of misconnections, not days of mass disruption) there is no queue at flight connections. However, I have rarely, if ever, not seen a significant queue at that desk.

There are various things BA could choose to do that they generally do not choose to do, and I'm not saying they should do all of those as they are costly. But I do believe they rarely would choose by default to offer a tight connection on another carrier in a lower class of service.

The one thing BA has announced for the near future is making it possible for far more airport staff to be able to handle rebookings which could help. It's too late for this particular case, but perhaps that will help reduce the queues at the rebooking desks.

Andriyko

And the next available flight was the next morning, which you refuse to accept. That the OP made it onto the LY flight on their own means absolutely nothing. It was not a viable option with luggage and the rebooking algorithm does not read minds and can't figure out that a passenger would want to abandon their bags (not even sure such a procedure exists). Had the LY flight been a viable option the OP would have automatically been rebooked onto that flight as it happens every day. Alternatively, the OP could have asked if the LY flight was still an option without luggage.

Everything seems to be so simple and easy for you - do this or do that, while no consideration is given to the practicalities of the suggestions you make. Rebooking onto other carriers is not as simple as you would like to think, there are IATA protocols, and if computer says 'no' it means a 'no,' especially in this particular case given the destination and the airline (LY) and that airline's own procedures. You don't know whether BA actually considered putting the OP onto the LY flight. Perhaps there were no seats in business class (again, the rebooking tool would not intuitively think that the OP would agree to travel in economy but would try to find a seat in the purchased cabin)? Perhaps the extra screening procedure made it obvious that it was not an option. You just think BA is guilty because airlines are always guilty. What the OP did was unconventional. Getting the same outcome from BA required some human interaction (which was not initiated), but I would not be surprised if BA actually refused to rebook the OP onto the LY flight without luggage. You may not like it but if it's not something that airlines do then we just need to accept that.



Exactly. The next morning's flight may have been the earliest default option. I understand that enquiring about other solutions (travelling without bags and in a lower class of service) required time which the OP did not have. The circumstances were aligned against the OP had they chosen to follow the correct rebooking procedure. Given that it was late in the evening and that the last flight of the day was leaving shortly it was a smart decision for the OP to just buy their own ticket and leave the bags behind if the priority was to get home. It may not have been a choice with BA, and queuing to find that out would have been a waste of time. But I think having checked bags left the OP with no options that would have been sanctioned by BA that evening.

jeremyBA