Flight cancelled DEN-LON-GLA. No reasonable alternative offered.
Nov 18, 2018, 2:39 pm
#32
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Silver
Posts: 175
It sounds like you may do well TP-wise with the extra segments. Just make sure to keep your BPs until the flights credit. I feel like AA occasionally gets confused by those last-minute “upgrades” back to the class of service you were supposed to have.
Nov 18, 2018, 3:05 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA, U2+, SK, AF/KL, IHG, Hilton, others gathering dust...
Posts: 2,552
Nov 26, 2018, 5:13 am
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: PC RA, Hertz PC, (Flybe) Premier card, Tesco Platinum
Posts: 1,329
In case anyone is wondering, we got home ~18hrs late, and our luggage made it the next day.
Claim submitted for E600 each for cancelled flight, early departure and delayed arrival
Claim submitted for hotel reimbursement under duty of care
Request made for consideration of downgrade of extra two sectors.
Many thanks for everyone's help in this, and (assuming no compelling reason otherwise) I'll update when I get a reply.
Claim submitted for E600 each for cancelled flight, early departure and delayed arrival
Claim submitted for hotel reimbursement under duty of care
Request made for consideration of downgrade of extra two sectors.
Many thanks for everyone's help in this, and (assuming no compelling reason otherwise) I'll update when I get a reply.
Nov 28, 2018, 9:41 am
#36
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: PC RA, Hertz PC, (Flybe) Premier card, Tesco Platinum
Posts: 1,329
So, an acceptance of the EU compensation, but a rejection of expenses paid and nothing for the downgrades. I guess I may eventually have to accept the outcome for the expenses and speak to my travel insurance on that (but will have to stomach the excess), but I have to say I'm not impressed by the overall experience. The downgrading is poor show though - a few Avios would have kept me happy, but nothing at all is just an insult.
Anyone got any advice/ thoughts at this time? Mine would be to refuse any involuntary reroute that puts you onto another carrier, especially if it is a "non-community carrier"
Anyone got any advice/ thoughts at this time? Mine would be to refuse any involuntary reroute that puts you onto another carrier, especially if it is a "non-community carrier"
Nov 28, 2018, 11:26 am
#37
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Yes....ask for a deadlock letter and advise of your intention to take the case to CEDR without further delay.
Your line of argument would be that the involuntary re-route, and the subsequent delay, and then the enforced overnight stop, were direct consequences of BA cancelling your flight which was within the scope of EC261. Put another way had BA not cancelled your flight then you would not be out of pocket.
You could also argue that if it was the intention that re-routing to UK on non community airlines was outside the scope of EC261 then airlines would immediately take the opportunity to re-route on alliance members like AA and thus make a handy cost saving by washing their hands of any duty of care costs.
I imagine that when someone in BA legal team reviews the case they will give in or settle at CEDR.
Your line of argument would be that the involuntary re-route, and the subsequent delay, and then the enforced overnight stop, were direct consequences of BA cancelling your flight which was within the scope of EC261. Put another way had BA not cancelled your flight then you would not be out of pocket.
You could also argue that if it was the intention that re-routing to UK on non community airlines was outside the scope of EC261 then airlines would immediately take the opportunity to re-route on alliance members like AA and thus make a handy cost saving by washing their hands of any duty of care costs.
I imagine that when someone in BA legal team reviews the case they will give in or settle at CEDR.
Dec 17, 2018, 3:40 am
#38
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Update - that’s the final position from BA sent to me and with no change the CEDR application is in, so now the wait to see what happens. I hope that this might result in a more sensible reply from BA, but time will tell.
Interesting that BA suggested I should claim off my travel insurance for the hotel costs - I could, but would then have both a claim against my name and also a small excess to pay. They’re just not entertaining the downgrade part either, in spite of me spending 1/3 of the journey in a seat rather than a bed. That’s a more difficult issue to quantify, but I still feel I deserve something.
Interesting that BA suggested I should claim off my travel insurance for the hotel costs - I could, but would then have both a claim against my name and also a small excess to pay. They’re just not entertaining the downgrade part either, in spite of me spending 1/3 of the journey in a seat rather than a bed. That’s a more difficult issue to quantify, but I still feel I deserve something.
Dec 17, 2018, 4:27 am
#39
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Flatland
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold 1MM, BA Gold, UA Peon
Posts: 6,110
Believe it or not, this is not a situation of BA’s making. There are IATA protocols around disruption handling, one of which is the difference between local and central processes, and all airlines are part of this. In disrupton BA’s handlers are supposed to check with the local agents of the proposed carrier how many pax they are willing and able to accept before rebooking them. In practice this can be agreed in advance, but again only on a local level.
For BA to arrange this centrally, it would necessitate a renegotiation with every individual airline with which they have an agreement to accept interline passengers. IIRC there are c.150 of these - not exactly the most practical exercise, even if everyone else were prepared to agree (which they won’t be).
If the carrier has closed their flight to new reservations and is handling remaining seating locally then it will require contact with the airport local staff, though how hard is it to phone the local staff to ask if they can accept a passenger? BA still aren't empowering their staff to do that.
There are many cases where either of these could apply, in particular the first one applies - it's a small (one-reservation) disruption and there are seats for sale on the proposed replacement.
Dec 17, 2018, 5:06 am
#40
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,659
I'm sure what you say is true for large scale disruption, but if the carrier is still selling tickets (showing GDS availability and willing to price it online) for seats on their flight then I see no reason why BA couldn't rebook people onto that flight when the passenger themselves could make that reservation if they want to risk (a lot of) money. BA central staff just aren't allowed to do it.
If the carrier has closed their flight to new reservations and is handling remaining seating locally then it will require contact with the airport local staff, though how hard is it to phone the local staff to ask if they can accept a passenger? BA still aren't empowering their staff to do that.
There are many cases where either of these could apply, in particular the first one applies - it's a small (one-reservation) disruption and there are seats for sale on the proposed replacement.
If the carrier has closed their flight to new reservations and is handling remaining seating locally then it will require contact with the airport local staff, though how hard is it to phone the local staff to ask if they can accept a passenger? BA still aren't empowering their staff to do that.
There are many cases where either of these could apply, in particular the first one applies - it's a small (one-reservation) disruption and there are seats for sale on the proposed replacement.
Dec 17, 2018, 6:08 am
#41
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
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I'm sure what you say is true for large scale disruption, but if the carrier is still selling tickets (showing GDS availability and willing to price it online) for seats on their flight then I see no reason why BA couldn't rebook people onto that flight when the passenger themselves could make that reservation if they want to risk (a lot of) money. BA central staff just aren't allowed to do it.
If the carrier has closed their flight to new reservations and is handling remaining seating locally then it will require contact with the airport local staff, though how hard is it to phone the local staff to ask if they can accept a passenger? BA still aren't empowering their staff to do that.
There are many cases where either of these could apply, in particular the first one applies - it's a small (one-reservation) disruption and there are seats for sale on the proposed replacement.
If the carrier has closed their flight to new reservations and is handling remaining seating locally then it will require contact with the airport local staff, though how hard is it to phone the local staff to ask if they can accept a passenger? BA still aren't empowering their staff to do that.
There are many cases where either of these could apply, in particular the first one applies - it's a small (one-reservation) disruption and there are seats for sale on the proposed replacement.
Dec 17, 2018, 6:17 am
#42
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Posts: 50,262
The fact that a carrier is willing to sell a seat does not mean that it is willing to accept an interline rebooking. That is because carriers overbook and accept the risk that an oversale will occur and that will be forced to either pay volunteers or involuntarily deny boarding. The fact that a seat is for sale means precious little in the context of IRROPS.
Also, at major US airports, "calling the airport" an agent from one carrier calling an agent from another carrier and reaching the individual charged with "gate control" is a fiction from the past. Neither carrier, but most particularly the receiving carrier, want an agent who is monitoring the load on a potentially oversold flight, chatting with agents from other carriers around the world.
Also, at major US airports, "calling the airport" an agent from one carrier calling an agent from another carrier and reaching the individual charged with "gate control" is a fiction from the past. Neither carrier, but most particularly the receiving carrier, want an agent who is monitoring the load on a potentially oversold flight, chatting with agents from other carriers around the world.
Jan 7, 2019, 3:14 pm
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Update: As predicted, BA have settled in CEDR at the 11th hour of their allowed response time. A fairly easy system to work through, and I'm reasonably happy with their response - all expenses paid and a small number of Avios to compensate for the downgraded legs.
Thankyou to all who gave advice, especially @simons1 for encouraging me to go to CEDR.
Thankyou to all who gave advice, especially @simons1 for encouraging me to go to CEDR.