A rude captain - any experiences?
Nov 11, 2018, 2:07 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: BA Gold; Surrey CCC
Posts: 97
I'm not questioning the OP, but it just seems odd. The aisle on the upper deck is a lot wider than those on the lower deck. I don't think I would have any problem getting past another passenger (and I'm far from skinny!). It sounds like the crew member was going out of his way to be confrontational. Which is not a trait I have encountered in any other BA pilots. Maybe he was just having a very bad day, but that's still no excuse. No harm in feeding back to BA.
Nov 11, 2018, 2:09 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: BA Gold; Surrey CCC
Posts: 97
Nov 11, 2018, 2:10 pm
#18
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA 1MM lifetime gold, Starwood gold, Marriott Gold Elite
Posts: 719
Definitely feedback to BA as if there is a pattern of similar behaviour, it sounds as though it needs to be discussed at heir next appraisal. All the BA surveys I get have a section regarding interaction with pilots.
In the modern world, everyone including those in charge should be expected to interact with people in a polite and patient way. Would the NHS tolerate such abruptness from a consultant surgeon who is ultimately trained to operate?
In the modern world, everyone including those in charge should be expected to interact with people in a polite and patient way. Would the NHS tolerate such abruptness from a consultant surgeon who is ultimately trained to operate?
Nov 11, 2018, 3:30 pm
#19
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Yes, and people should. You miss out on many brilliant people if you expect everybody to be polite. In fact, that is why I think tech is on a decline in the US, because they don't care whether someone is actually good at what they do, versus politically competent.
Nov 11, 2018, 3:44 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond, Mucci de buveur de gin
Posts: 3,060
Captains rarely interact with passengers. Unless you fly on Southwest, which does not operate in the UK as far as I know.
Maybe a decade ago they would stand and greet you but you rarely see them. Most of the time they are in the cockpit before you get on the plane (depends on where you sit, obviously), and still in the cockpit when you get out. Some captains do not announce anything over the PA (Japanese captains routinely do) and just have other people announce it.
Why wouldn't you just want a captain who flies the plane well?
Maybe a decade ago they would stand and greet you but you rarely see them. Most of the time they are in the cockpit before you get on the plane (depends on where you sit, obviously), and still in the cockpit when you get out. Some captains do not announce anything over the PA (Japanese captains routinely do) and just have other people announce it.
Why wouldn't you just want a captain who flies the plane well?
Nov 11, 2018, 3:54 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Nov 11, 2018, 3:55 pm
#22
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 708
I’d be concerned about that - someone that angry just before entering the cockpit doesn’t bode well for a ‘sterile’ environment needed to work effectively with your flight deck colleagues during takeoff or landing...
Nov 11, 2018, 3:57 pm
#23
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
Recently came back from New York on the jumbo, when I (and quite a few other passengers on the upper deck) had the pleasure of interacting with a very rude and aggressive Captain. He aggressively told one lady to "move now, I need to get to the flight deck" and another elderly gentleman who was having trouble placing his bag in the locker to "take your time and hold up the entire flight why don't you". I thought this unnecessary. Myself and a few others could scarcely believe what we were hearing (we continued to discuss when we landed) and indeed, the CSM did come after with an embarrassed look on her face (not an apology, which we were not expecting anyways). Cabin crew were great and the flight was thereafter uneventful.
My experience, albeit limited, with BA Captains is that they are charming, extremely polite and courteous, ultra-professional and always have a smile. I also find them far more open than flight crews from other airlines, except maybe the LCCs. This bloke clearly got out of the wrong side of bed that day and took it out on the two unfortunate passengers who got in his way.
Has anyone else had bad experiences with flight crews?
My experience, albeit limited, with BA Captains is that they are charming, extremely polite and courteous, ultra-professional and always have a smile. I also find them far more open than flight crews from other airlines, except maybe the LCCs. This bloke clearly got out of the wrong side of bed that day and took it out on the two unfortunate passengers who got in his way.
Has anyone else had bad experiences with flight crews?
If he is rude to customers is he also rude to cabin crew, other flight crew, dispatchers? Would those elderly people have been put off from reporting something that looked out of place as a result of that interaction? I don’t know. Maybe just a one off, maybe not. But if it isn’t reported the company doesn’t have the opportunity to manage it.
And I have never ever seen this sort of behaviour from BA flight crew. Without exception, every interaction I’ve had with them over many years has left me with nothing but a positive impression.
Last edited by IAMORGAN; Nov 11, 2018 at 4:08 pm
Nov 11, 2018, 3:59 pm
#24
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: BAEC silver
Posts: 464
Not sure what you mean by “taking it further” the Captain may have poor customer service skills but as you’ve written this message he clearly performed his primary role as expected and safely commanded his aircraft to its destination. Your taking it further won’t get you compensated, an apology from the Captain and he won’t be fired.
Nov 11, 2018, 4:04 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold; FB Silver; SPG; IHG Gold
Posts: 2,984
An interesting thread and a few things spring to mind.
Firstly, as I get more and more DYKWIA in my old age, I'm increasingly bemused at how some people lack any common sense, spatial awareness or any kind of awareness in day to day behaviour, including in the context of commercial aviation, so on one level I can sympathise with the impulse.
Secondly, many of us will in some shape or form deal with clients and customers, and some of us would agree that they can be a pain. However, they are still our customers and deserve to be treated with respect. I wouldn't dream of being rude to customers in this way in my business, even if they are thick/rude etc themselves, because at the end of the day they can take their business elsewhere. I don't buy the "his job is to fly the plane and nothing else" argument. Frankly, you could make that argument for most jobs. BA is providing a service in a competitive environment. The job is not merely to take off and land a plane (although I accept that it is the most important aspect) but also to exercise a degree of courtesy towards customers. I accept that there may be circumstances ( e.g. with a drunk and abusive passenger) where politeness has to be dispensed with, but the situation described by the OP is nothing of the sort.
Thirdly, I would be concerned about this Captain's CRM, which of course is a safety problem.
My own experience is that BA cabin crew and flight crew are almost universally charming. So much so that it came as a bit of a surprise to occasionally hear from certain BA pilots that I know personally about their occasional experience with an unpleasant colleague on the flight deck- albeit this simply means the life of BA pilot is exactly like all of our working lives!
Firstly, as I get more and more DYKWIA in my old age, I'm increasingly bemused at how some people lack any common sense, spatial awareness or any kind of awareness in day to day behaviour, including in the context of commercial aviation, so on one level I can sympathise with the impulse.
Secondly, many of us will in some shape or form deal with clients and customers, and some of us would agree that they can be a pain. However, they are still our customers and deserve to be treated with respect. I wouldn't dream of being rude to customers in this way in my business, even if they are thick/rude etc themselves, because at the end of the day they can take their business elsewhere. I don't buy the "his job is to fly the plane and nothing else" argument. Frankly, you could make that argument for most jobs. BA is providing a service in a competitive environment. The job is not merely to take off and land a plane (although I accept that it is the most important aspect) but also to exercise a degree of courtesy towards customers. I accept that there may be circumstances ( e.g. with a drunk and abusive passenger) where politeness has to be dispensed with, but the situation described by the OP is nothing of the sort.
Thirdly, I would be concerned about this Captain's CRM, which of course is a safety problem.
My own experience is that BA cabin crew and flight crew are almost universally charming. So much so that it came as a bit of a surprise to occasionally hear from certain BA pilots that I know personally about their occasional experience with an unpleasant colleague on the flight deck- albeit this simply means the life of BA pilot is exactly like all of our working lives!
Nov 11, 2018, 4:06 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Feed it back. Rudeness is unacceptable whether you’re “the Captain” or “the cleaner”.
If he is rude to customers is he also rude to cabin crew, other flight crew, dispatchers? Would those elderly people have been put off from reporting something that looked out of place as a result of that interaction? I don’t know. Maybe just a one off, maybe not. But if it isn’t reported the company doesn’t have the opportunity to manage it.
Nov 11, 2018, 4:13 pm
#27
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,271
When I worked in the Aviation sector I got to know a number of senior pilots, mainly Long Haul. I have to say that the BA ones that I met and spent time with were universally polite and charming. As were those from the competition.
However, not all of them were aware of the impact that they could make on crew or the slf. A couple were very sensitive to this, but some just did not have any concern for their impact.
So it is mixed - some very charming folk, but their awareness of their impact was not always where one would want it to be.
(Lots of expensive consulting hours have been paid for trying to help people develop a "Concern for Impact" - those hours have not always been successful)
I can imagine off-hand comments from the Captain, when she was probably thinking of 101 other things, can be easily interpreted as rudeness.
However, not all of them were aware of the impact that they could make on crew or the slf. A couple were very sensitive to this, but some just did not have any concern for their impact.
So it is mixed - some very charming folk, but their awareness of their impact was not always where one would want it to be.
(Lots of expensive consulting hours have been paid for trying to help people develop a "Concern for Impact" - those hours have not always been successful)
I can imagine off-hand comments from the Captain, when she was probably thinking of 101 other things, can be easily interpreted as rudeness.
Nov 11, 2018, 5:11 pm
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
TAM Captains used to stand at the jetty welcoming their passengers on board which I found rather quaint....at least you knew what they looked like.. Been a while since I've flown with them but I'd be surprised if they still do it.
Nov 11, 2018, 5:30 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2016
Location: UK
Programs: British Airways Executive Club Gold, Global Entry
Posts: 363
In reality I'm sure this pilot in question is perfectly safe, such is the modern safety and CRM culture in the flight deck, particularly BA, with a confidential reporting system for any concerns. However the fact that it has been raised as a concern twice already in this thread shows the unintended consequence of this individual's behaviour in front of pax.
*The direct cause was the premature retraction of the leading edge slats, but reason for the retraction was never established.
Nov 11, 2018, 5:36 pm
#30
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cote d'Ivoire
Programs: OW Emerald - HH Diamond
Posts: 3,416
uhhhh, sure.