When did the demise of BA start?

Old Nov 7, 2018, 2:56 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,825
When did the demise of BA start?

We all know the hard product is behind the ME3 and others but between data leaks, IT system failures and flight cancellations/delays handled badly with terrible press surely heads must roll in senior management? When did the rot set in? It seems to be one bad news day after another with no real management change - perhaps brexit will put BA out of its misery once and for all and open the doors for Qatar to buy them out...
m3red is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:02 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,642
Originally Posted by m3red
When did the demise of BA start?
I am not a grammarian, but I wonder whether this is a classic example of what is properly described as "begging the question".
Globaliser is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:03 am
  #3  
V10
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, Belgi
Programs: MUCCI Gold
Posts: 2,511
"Demise" implies that they don't exist any more. If this has happened I must have missed it.

You call it rot, but we could also call it responding to changing market conditions and this has probably been going on since the start. I do think that some of it is being handled badly, and even if the overall strategy is right BA does have a systemic problem on being execute these plans effectively. But nonetheless, talk of demise is premature.
V10 is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:06 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,526
Unlikely. BA are increasing revenue and profit YoY for some time. I'll dig out the charts if I have a moment.

Meanwhile Qatar (and Emirates for that matter) are heavily state subsidised. BA seems to be in good shape from the point of view of the financials and passenger numbers, which is what counts. Obviously, if you don't like BA, there are alternatives, but plenty of passengers are happy with the service.
HIDDY, Anonba and Crofton138 like this.
bisonrav is online now  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:12 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester but from Yorkshire better known as Gods country
Programs: BA Gold, , Sandals plat
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by m3red
We all know the hard product is behind the ME3 and others but between data leaks, IT system failures and flight cancellations/delays handled badly with terrible press surely heads must roll in senior management? When did the rot set in? It seems to be one bad news day after another with no real management change - perhaps brexit will put BA out of its misery once and for all and open the doors for Qatar to buy them out...
And the ME3 are perfect? Qatars Akbar Al Baker never gets any bad press! Ethiad is is financial trouble and as for Emirates, everyone I know has a story about them, including myself who only ever flew with them once in F and was you get past being blinded by the bling realise its a very ordinary airline. Add into the mix the three cant get on with each other with no fly state bans and the changing patterns in air travel, Id wager my money that BA will be around long after the demise of these 3
HIDDY and T8191 like this.
PJSMITH0 is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:27 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Originally Posted by bisonrav
Meanwhile Qatar (and Emirates for that matter) are heavily state subsidised.
Qatar, yes absolutely, though they are now going to supposedly publish financials. Emirates have always published full financials, and are not that heavily subsidised, good thing BA never gets subsidies

Originally Posted by PJSMITH0


And the ME3 are perfect? Qatar’s Akbar Al Baker never gets any bad press! Ethiad is is financial trouble and as for Emirates, everyone I know has a story about them, including myself who only ever flew with them once in F and was you get past being blinded by the bling realise it’s a very ordinary airline. Add into the mix the three can’t get on with each other with no fly state bans and the changing patterns in air travel, I’d wager my money that BA will be around long after the demise of these 3
EY is probably going to be gone or massively restructured quite soon, yes. Qatar will continue to exist with heavy state support as long as they have oil revenue. EK is quite stable and self sufficient, and an extremely well-run and professional operation. Where BA operates 30 year old aircraft and has a fleet with dozens of different aircraft types, FAs on all kinda of different contracts (MF vs WW?) and clearly struggling to maintain the airworthiness of their aircraft, I don't see how you could think BA would survive EK.

Both have similarly sized fleets, yet EK has just three types of aircraft, A380-800, B777-300-ER and B777-200LR (10 of the latter, ~150 of the 77W and ~105 of the A380). Thus EK is an arguably much larger airline operating a fleet with over 110,000 seats, in a much more efficient route network, better employee contracts and less legacy rot. And they serve real French champagne and every single business class seat in their fleet is lie-flat, even on 40-minute flights... Try CE to IST on BA...lol

Oh and then don't forgot this peach of an example of what a deplorable airline BA is... Involuntary denial of boarding, please help
skywardhunter is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:28 am
  #7  
amt
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
The day Wee Willy Walsh opened a letter that began Were delighted to extend the offer to join BA as CEO...
amt is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:30 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: BA
Posts: 102
I'm not sure what this thread is trying to contribute? BA is very profitable. For all it's faults (and I'm the first to tell you there are some) it's not the demonised basket case that many suggest it is. Look at the numbers... or indeed the facts. And not those alternative ones either. Passenger numbers up, profits up. Gatwick, once a financial basket case, has been turned around. Indeed, the new catering has been gathering generally positive comments on here (who would have thought?!) and we'll be seeing more soft product and hard product improvements next year. I suspect that much of this vitriol is one based upon perception.

Brexit putting BA "out of it's misery" so that QR can come in a buy it? Give me a break. Next you'll be calling Club World a premium economy product.
hemschmall is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:33 am
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,642
Originally Posted by hemschmall
I'm not sure what this thread is trying to contribute?
One word, five letters. Begins with "T".
aidy likes this.
Globaliser is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:33 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North of Watford Gap
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by m3red
We all know the hard product is behind the ME3 and others but between data leaks, IT system failures and flight cancellations/delays handled badly with terrible press surely heads must roll in senior management? When did the rot set in? It seems to be one bad news day after another with no real management change - perhaps brexit will put BA out of its misery once and for all and open the doors for Qatar to buy them out...
BA have responded to market forces thrown at them from the LCC competition. - change to survive or go under

Last edited by babats; Nov 7, 2018 at 3:34 am Reason: Typo
babats is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:35 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by skywardhunter
in a much more efficient route network, better employee contracts
Ask that question to EK's pilots and I am sure they will not agree. There are many reasons why EK have a pilot shortage.
nancypants likes this.
Forever in Seattle is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:40 am
  #12  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,825
Originally Posted by Forever in Seattle
Ask that question to EK's pilots and I am sure they will not agree. There are many reasons why EK have a pilot shortage.
This is very real and the management isn't great at EK. The perception of BA is at an all time low and I don't understand how there hasn't been a senior management change in a while...
m3red is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:45 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Manchester but from Yorkshire better known as Gods country
Programs: BA Gold, , Sandals plat
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by skywardhunter
Qatar, yes absolutely, though they are now going to supposedly publish financials. Emirates have always published full financials, and are not that heavily subsidised, good thing BA never gets subsidies



EY is probably going to be gone or massively restructured quite soon, yes. Qatar will continue to exist with heavy state support as long as they have oil revenue. EK is quite stable and self sufficient, and an extremely well-run and professional operation. Where BA operates 30 year old aircraft and has a fleet with dozens of different aircraft types, FAs on all kinda of different contracts (MF vs WW?) and clearly struggling to maintain the airworthiness of their aircraft, I don't see how you could think BA would survive EK.

Both have similarly sized fleets, yet EK has just three types of aircraft, A380-800, B777-300-ER and B777-200LR (10 of the latter, ~150 of the 77W and ~105 of the A380). Thus EK is an arguably much larger airline operating a fleet with over 110,000 seats, in a much more efficient route network, better employee contracts and less legacy rot. And they serve real French champagne and every single business class seat in their fleet is lie-flat, even on 40-minute flights... Try CE to IST on BA...lol
And yet this is also their weakness. As more and more extended range aircraft start to fly city to city their hub model weakens. That a lot of A380’s to fill and whilst it may be a bigger airline for now I still believe BA’s mix of LH and SH will see it grow faster than Emirates which has reached saturation point.

Last edited by Prospero; Nov 7, 2018 at 4:26 am Reason: repair quotation frame
PJSMITH0 is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:46 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by skywardhunter
and every single business class seat in their fleet is lie-flat, even on 40-minute flights... Try CE to IST on BA...lol
Not quite... They have angled seats without all aisle access on the 777s. That's one thing BA does do better than most, consistency in the hard product.
RoyalSwazi likes this.
T5ops is offline  
Old Nov 7, 2018, 3:47 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Originally Posted by PJSMITH0
Originally Posted by skywardhunter
Qatar, yes absolutely, though they are now going to supposedly publish financials. Emirates have always published full financials, and are not that heavily subsidised, good thing BA never gets subsidies



EY is probably going to be gone or massively restructured quite soon, yes. Qatar will continue to exist with heavy state support as long as they have oil revenue. EK is quite stable and self sufficient, and an extremely well-run and professional operation. Where BA operates 30 year old aircraft and has a fleet with dozens of different aircraft types, FAs on all kinda of different contracts (MF vs WW?) and clearly struggling to maintain the airworthiness of their aircraft, I don't see how you could think BA would survive EK.

Both have similarly sized fleets, yet EK has just three types of aircraft, A380-800, B777-300-ER and B777-200LR (10 of the latter, ~150 of the 77W and ~105 of the A380). Thus EK is an arguably much larger airline operating a fleet with over 110,000 seats, in a much more efficient route network, better employee contracts and less legacy rot. And they serve real French champagne and every single business class seat in their fleet is lie-flat, even on 40-minute flights... Try CE to IST on BA...lol
And yet this is also their weakness. As more and more extended range aircraft start to fly city to city their hub model weakens. That a lot of A380’s to fill and whilst it may be a bigger airline for now I still believe BA’s mix of LH and SH will see it grow faster than Emirates which has reached saturation point.
Good thing the first A380s will be retiring soon and that they've got 40 787s on order then

Last edited by Prospero; Nov 7, 2018 at 4:39 am Reason: repair quotations/attribution
skywardhunter is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.