Nov 6, 2018, 5:24 am
Last edit by: lavajava
Key Information (thanks @corporate-wage-slave):
Original schedule
Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November
Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical
Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November
Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27
Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):
The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".
Compensation Information:
This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
Original schedule
Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November
Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical
Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November
Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27
Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):
The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".
Compensation Information:
This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]
Nov 13, 2018, 6:54 am
#181
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
(bolding mine)
In aviation situations are never the same, this is FlyerTalk where we are discussing things that happened, with most of us not having been present. It was a constructive share of a relevant article of another situation where an aircraft went tech (in a way) and several hundred pax were displaced, and I think some of us find the comparison interesting and worthwhile reading about.
In aviation situations are never the same, this is FlyerTalk where we are discussing things that happened, with most of us not having been present. It was a constructive share of a relevant article of another situation where an aircraft went tech (in a way) and several hundred pax were displaced, and I think some of us find the comparison interesting and worthwhile reading about.
Nov 13, 2018, 7:05 am
#182
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,613
Again, you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It is hard to argue with alternative facts. I can only assume that you mean that NZ would have created hotel rooms out of thin air. It is, of course, very reasonable and fair to compare a situation where you have an abundance of rooms to book and one where there are none. And that's disregarding the fact that those leaving that same day did not require an overnight accommodation.
As far as I can tell, there have been 2 sources for the "No Hotel Rooms Available" story. One was BA - and we can discount that as they obviously have "skin in the game". The other source is you. So, as you are so adamant that no hotel rooms were available, I guess this means that you were looking to book a last minute room at around 3am on that night? What radius from JFK did you use?
It seems a bit strange that BA were giving out leaflets advising people to book hotels themselves if they knew none were available.
Just to add... I was working in New York 10 years ago when Paula Radcliffe won the marathon. A friend of mine booked into my hotel (Courtyard, Jersey City) a couple of days before. So, just because the marathon was on doesn't mean there are no rooms available in the whole of the NYC area.
Nov 13, 2018, 7:14 am
#183
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Nov 13, 2018, 7:22 am
#184
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,613
For those of us who can remember way back in time when a FTer was seeking real-time information, help and advice about the situation, and before the professionally offended got involved in the discussion: Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]
Yours,
Mr P Offended.
Nov 13, 2018, 7:25 am
#185
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
(bolding mine)
In aviation situations are never the same, this is FlyerTalk where we are discussing things that happened, with most of us not having been present. It was a constructive share of a relevant article of another situation where an aircraft went tech (in a way) and several hundred pax were displaced, and I think some of us find the comparison interesting and worthwhile reading about.
In aviation situations are never the same, this is FlyerTalk where we are discussing things that happened, with most of us not having been present. It was a constructive share of a relevant article of another situation where an aircraft went tech (in a way) and several hundred pax were displaced, and I think some of us find the comparison interesting and worthwhile reading about.
Nov 13, 2018, 7:28 am
#186
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I've been around long enough to remember when BA would arrange hotels. At somewhere like JFK they could perhaps rustle up 5 agents to do exactly this. If you have 150 family groups to resolve (some needing multiple rooms, connecting rooms, rooms with particular facilities) realistically it take about 10 minutes per group, not least because it's often the first opportunity to offload complaints. And if you listen in on this, people tend to make the same point over and over again, in a healthy but time-consuming way. So 10 minutes is what it is. And if you do the maths, the person at the back of the queue is waiting 5 hours. Even if you throw 10 staff at it, it's still a multi hour wait for some. So the current system - where people are asked to sort themselves out and staff focus on vulnerable travellers (who were booked into hotels by BA in this incident) - isn't necessarily a bad idea.
There will always be people (such as experienced or regular travellers, or those with travel agents on speed dial) that can sort themselves out whilst leaving the agents to help those who are less able, either because they are short of funds or elderly or infirm etc etc. I don't see it as an excuse to abdicate responsibility.
In any case in this example there was 2 hours notice of arrival - surely enough for a well organised company to at least establish what was available.
Nov 13, 2018, 7:36 am
#187
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MAN DXB ✈️
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 6,831
well whetever happened you didn’t see air nz passengers all over the press moaning so maybe the lesson is to get a new PR team?
Nov 13, 2018, 1:48 pm
#189
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,130
Just to add... I was working in New York 10 years ago when Paula Radcliffe won the marathon. A friend of mine booked into my hotel (Courtyard, Jersey City) a couple of days before. So, just because the marathon was on doesn't mean there are no rooms available in the whole of the NYC area.
Nov 14, 2018, 2:54 am
#192
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,768
Depends where you go in the New York area.
The average tourist will not look much further than Manhattan / Times Square area, or the airport area if overnighting.
I personally have no issues staying in Queens etc. and hotels here are quite often far, far cheaper than in Manhattan.
It's a case of having a little knowledge of the area or to be willing to step out of your comfort zone area wise when it comes to booking something.
As mentioned earlier, the Jersey Courtyard was picked up a couple of days before the marathon. (To be honest, it still takes about 3hrs or a good marathon day to get from Queensboro' Plaza etc. to Staten Island using the subway to South Station then the ferry and bus).
It's possibly a little bit far out for JFK and/or marathon purposes, at least for runners (spectators may pop along later and be more local so can drive to the hotel and then use public transport at their discretion).
Some places in Brooklyn aren't that close to subway lines and are perhaps not in areas you would want to be wandering about in at 5am or whatever.
$55 or whatever for a cab to the city on top of a hotel that probably costs £200+ is a chunk of someone's budget, especially, when mentioned previously, that Disney / SeaWorld are pretty much places where you might as well hand over your credit card at the gate and say "go nuts!"
The average tourist will not look much further than Manhattan / Times Square area, or the airport area if overnighting.
I personally have no issues staying in Queens etc. and hotels here are quite often far, far cheaper than in Manhattan.
It's a case of having a little knowledge of the area or to be willing to step out of your comfort zone area wise when it comes to booking something.
As mentioned earlier, the Jersey Courtyard was picked up a couple of days before the marathon. (To be honest, it still takes about 3hrs or a good marathon day to get from Queensboro' Plaza etc. to Staten Island using the subway to South Station then the ferry and bus).
It's possibly a little bit far out for JFK and/or marathon purposes, at least for runners (spectators may pop along later and be more local so can drive to the hotel and then use public transport at their discretion).
Some places in Brooklyn aren't that close to subway lines and are perhaps not in areas you would want to be wandering about in at 5am or whatever.
$55 or whatever for a cab to the city on top of a hotel that probably costs £200+ is a chunk of someone's budget, especially, when mentioned previously, that Disney / SeaWorld are pretty much places where you might as well hand over your credit card at the gate and say "go nuts!"
Nov 14, 2018, 7:56 pm
#193
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
I’m curious about this. Why £200.00?
I was in Switzerland a few months ago and my flight was cancelled. I looked at hotels and the cheapest was over £400. Thankfully I was rebooked onto a same day flight, but, surely BA have a duty of care and this can’t be capped at £200? If the cheapest hotel is above this (and you can prove it); will BA simply not pay?
I was in Switzerland a few months ago and my flight was cancelled. I looked at hotels and the cheapest was over £400. Thankfully I was rebooked onto a same day flight, but, surely BA have a duty of care and this can’t be capped at £200? If the cheapest hotel is above this (and you can prove it); will BA simply not pay?
But what is BA offering as extra comp here to all these pax besides the standard EU comp of EUR 600 for flights delayed beyond 6 hours.
I would think at a minimum BA would comp each pax w a free future return ticket in their class of service for the 3 day disaster of an experience???
Nov 14, 2018, 9:38 pm
#194
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA Lifetime Platinum (3MM), QF Lifetime Gold, Bonvoy Lifetime Platinum, Ex-Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 7,541
My only major IRROPS in 2016 (LGW-KIN) there was NO direct EC261 information provided to pax, although some EC261 letters were left on the reception desk at the LGW Sofitel where we were put up overnight ... if you knew they were there in the first place. What I was given was the attached letter, with the small-print footnote which I guess covers BA's backside. Fortunately, thanks to FT, I knew what do do in respect of EC261 anyway, but I doubt the majority of pax did or knew how much it was going to be worth!
An “Interesting” Journey to Jamaica with BA (JER-LGW-KIN)
An “Interesting” Journey to Jamaica with BA (JER-LGW-KIN)
I was in business class on both segments. I asked for and received a voucher for a taxi and a daytime hotel stay, which I didn't use. I stayed in the longe the whole time. I know enough to ask about EU delayed comp and upon request as to whether this delay qualified, the supervisor said "I think so" and handed me a leaflet on delayed compensation.
The airline DID NOT proactively say to anyone that they might be eligible for EU comp. I mentioned this to one or two people who arrived at the service desk to inquire about our re-routing and they were surprised/enthused, but my interpretation is that the airline never volunteered or indicated anything.
I filed online at the Iceland Air website for EU compensation from the lounge that day and received EUR 600 credit to my credit card within a month or so .
I have been delayed many times on BA 2-4+ hours and never been offered EU delayed comp, but been treated very well. I'm sure the statue of limitations of many if not all of those delays is over and many were due to strikes: one by the ground staff (that's probably BA's fault but also probably 5+ years ago) and at least 2 others by air traffic control issues, but probably others due to mechanical issues .
Nov 14, 2018, 11:15 pm
#195
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
Somewhat incredulous, I looked at expedia - lo and behold there was vacancy the hotel he usually stayed at less than a mile from the airport, and a discounted rate too. He regularly stays there, and it was actually the cheapest rate I have ever booked.
So when an airline says there are no rooms, I don't believe them. It probably means "the 30 rooms we have at crew contracted rates are sold out" not "there are no hotel rooms available in the metro area"