Last edit by: lavajava
Key Information (thanks @corporate-wage-slave):
Original schedule
Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November
Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical
Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November
Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27
Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):
The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".
Compensation Information:
This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
Original schedule
Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November
Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical
Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November
Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27
Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):
The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".
Compensation Information:
This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]
#61
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,655
So lets look at some facts, shall we?
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
#62
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,573
The LGW-MCO carrying parts and engineer the following day got diverted en route due to weather, hence the further delay to the rescheduled flight
So really was a case of "if it can go wrong it will!"
I wonder why JFK was chosen if there were no hotels available, I would have thought this would have been a factor in the decision.
I was on a Virgin flight from JFK to LHR during the big Xmas snow (2010?) and initially we were unsure where we would be going whilst Ops secured us a hotel though we did manage to get into Stansted in the end
So really was a case of "if it can go wrong it will!"
I wonder why JFK was chosen if there were no hotels available, I would have thought this would have been a factor in the decision.
I was on a Virgin flight from JFK to LHR during the big Xmas snow (2010?) and initially we were unsure where we would be going whilst Ops secured us a hotel though we did manage to get into Stansted in the end
#63
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,573
So lets look at some facts, shall we?
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
#64
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,605
Passengers - "Nah mate, we'll stay here on the floor".
Yes, sounds entirely plausible.
#65
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Posts: 125
So lets look at some facts, shall we?
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:
Chicago (5x)
Miami (7x)
Charlotte (9x)
Dallas Fort Worth (8x)
Philadelphia (5x)
New York JFK (2x)
Phoenix (2x)
You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?
Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.
So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).
The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.
There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?
The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
#66
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Diamond, Delta PM, Hilton Gold, Accor Gold, Marriott Silver
Posts: 7,264
Fundamentally disagree.
I’ve been in the air on US carriers before on itineraries where I’m going to miss a connection. I’ve been automatically rebooked whilst in the air on alternative routings.
Quite simply this should have been done the first time, with the guarantee that people would have got home soonest, as opposed to what was the most convenient (and cheapest option) for BA.
I’ve been in the air on US carriers before on itineraries where I’m going to miss a connection. I’ve been automatically rebooked whilst in the air on alternative routings.
Quite simply this should have been done the first time, with the guarantee that people would have got home soonest, as opposed to what was the most convenient (and cheapest option) for BA.
As one of those Yankees who has been offered a fair number of rather creative rebookings (Sorry, but is there a better option to get from Florida to Scotland by way of San Francisco? Can we try that again?) from the local GAs, I also found myself wondering why BA was seeming to drag so much with offering other options when the East Coast hubs all have their share of later transatlantic red eye options. No, an unplanned transit of CDG or Madrid in order to get back home is not the ideal way to finish a trip, but at least you're getting yourself back onto the correct continent and that's a good first big step.
And yes, auto-rebooking and rebooking by phone app is an IT investment up front, but once you do it, you can probably reduce staffing costs and callback times and free up employee time for those cases where a ticket or situation is too complex to be handled by the phone app. There will always be issues when an airline is in ground stop recovery mode, but for everyday IRROPS when there is seat inventory available, the more people who can rebook online without assistance, the better it is for both passenger and company.
#67
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
But far more importantly, why is there the capability to automatically rebook passengers on the next available flight as the US carriers do?
Rather than some poor outsourced sap on the ground having to manually wade through hundreds of bookings?
Ah, I know, because it would cost Capex to do that, and thus some Waterside manager wouldn't get their bonus for that year for continuing to slash costs.
Rather than some poor outsourced sap on the ground having to manually wade through hundreds of bookings?
Ah, I know, because it would cost Capex to do that, and thus some Waterside manager wouldn't get their bonus for that year for continuing to slash costs.
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,430
Based on my one experience of IRROPS at JFK I am not surprised it was handled badly. The attitude there was polite, but no attempt to be proactive, rebook etc. and flat out disbelief about rebooking outside JBA (this as a Gold in Club). BA holidays helpline were far more useful but as I’d wasted time with the JFK ground staff it was too late.
I then took matters into my own hands and had a pleasant night in one of the W’s downtown and explored Manhattan. I gather BA arranged a shonky Best Western in the middle of nowhere and failed to inform anyone of their EU261 rights. Feel very sorry for those making trips of a lifetime or inexperienced in these situations.
BA’s IRROPS has always been poor but the “cut costs daily” mindset seems to be making it worse.
I then took matters into my own hands and had a pleasant night in one of the W’s downtown and explored Manhattan. I gather BA arranged a shonky Best Western in the middle of nowhere and failed to inform anyone of their EU261 rights. Feel very sorry for those making trips of a lifetime or inexperienced in these situations.
BA’s IRROPS has always been poor but the “cut costs daily” mindset seems to be making it worse.
#69
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Its all very well saying BA should have booked the passengers on other services, but which ones are they? The schedule departure was 21:20. After the tech problem had been Identified and the passengers offloaded it would be 22:20 at the earliest. What flights are there from MCO-LON after that? So sending the pax via DFW, ORD etc BA could not get the pax there in time for the trans atlantic flights that night. BA assumed the aircraft would be fixed next day, so much easier to put the pax in hotels and send them next evening. Of course it all went wrong after that, but at the time it was not forseen.
I quite agree that BA should put pax on other carriers when a tech problem causes a flight cancellation, but that can only be done if there are other flights available. The problem with late night departures from the USA is there are very few daytime flights to Europe to transfer the pax to.. And that late at night there are not many domestics to other hubs either. None of this excuses the disgraceful behaviour of BA in ignoring their EU261 obligations when the second tech issue arose and the aircraft diverted to JFK.
I quite agree that BA should put pax on other carriers when a tech problem causes a flight cancellation, but that can only be done if there are other flights available. The problem with late night departures from the USA is there are very few daytime flights to Europe to transfer the pax to.. And that late at night there are not many domestics to other hubs either. None of this excuses the disgraceful behaviour of BA in ignoring their EU261 obligations when the second tech issue arose and the aircraft diverted to JFK.
#70
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 755
so why divert there in the first place? As I understand it, they were 40 minutes out of MCO when they had the tech problem. As such there were multiple options, that would have had hotel rooms, PHL, IAD, BWI, CLT, BOS, or even EWR.
I cant believe that their Operations management were unaware of hotels situation when making the decision to go to JFK.
I cant believe that their Operations management were unaware of hotels situation when making the decision to go to JFK.
#71
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,163
However, operations staff will have been concerned for where they could land the aircraft as safely as possible with the highest chances of a speedy return to service. JFK is probably a very good choice for that as well as not too much of a deviation from the planned flight path and with frequent alternative connections to London. I am certain they did not for one second consider the hotel situation or any local events.
#72
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 755
Yup, that s exactly the point I am trying to make. BA ops should have considered the hotels situation when deciding to go for JFK. Why select it on the grounds that it has more alternative flights to London and then not put passengers on those flights.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.
#73
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,345
A story in The Sun shows various letters which were given to passengers - all offer apologies for the delay and inconvenience, not one mentions EU261. I think that shows BA in its true colours.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/765455...hday-on-plane/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/765455...hday-on-plane/
#74
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Yup, that s exactly the point I am trying to make. BA ops should have considered the hotels situation when deciding to go for JFK. Why select it on the grounds that it has more alternative flights to London and then not put passengers on those flights.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.