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Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:27 pm   -   Wikipost
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Key Information (thanks @corporate-wage-slave):

Original schedule

Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November

Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical

Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November

Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27

Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):

The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".

Compensation Information:

This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 4:27 pm
  #61  
 
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So lets look at some facts, shall we?

From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:

Chicago (5x)

Miami (7x)

Charlotte (9x)

Dallas Fort Worth (8x)

Philadelphia (5x)

New York JFK (2x)

Phoenix (2x)

You’re not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldn’t have been re-accommodated on those services?

Plus there’s Delta and United. Plus there’s Virgin and Lufthansa.

So let’s say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).

The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.

There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?

The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 4:33 pm
  #62  
 
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The LGW-MCO carrying parts and engineer the following day got diverted en route due to weather, hence the further delay to the rescheduled flight

So really was a case of "if it can go wrong it will!"

I wonder why JFK was chosen if there were no hotels available, I would have thought this would have been a factor in the decision.

I was on a Virgin flight from JFK to LHR during the big Xmas snow (2010?) and initially we were unsure where we would be going whilst Ops secured us a hotel though we did manage to get into Stansted in the end
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Old Nov 4, 18, 4:37 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
So lets look at some facts, shall we?

From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:

Chicago (5x)

Miami (7x)

Charlotte (9x)

Dallas Fort Worth (8x)

Philadelphia (5x)

New York JFK (2x)

Phoenix (2x)

Youíre not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldnít have been re-accommodated on those services?

Plus thereís Delta and United. Plus thereís Virgin and Lufthansa.

So letís say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).

The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.

There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?

The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
hindsight is a wonderful thing! After the first attempt it would have been too late to reroute anyone and the rescheduled direct flight would still have been the quickest way to get everyone home rather than start rerouting people indirectly to the wrong London airport
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Old Nov 4, 18, 4:38 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
Could BA have communicated this better? Probably, but letís not forget there are a lot of passengers out there who are unable or unwilling to listen to advice and assistance. Who is to say that those complaining the most now are not the ones who didnít listen?
BA - "There's a lounge over there with free food, drink and bedding for you to get some rest".

Passengers - "Nah mate, we'll stay here on the floor".

Yes, sounds entirely plausible.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 5:00 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
So lets look at some facts, shall we?

From looking at the schedules, American fly from Orlando to:

Chicago (5x)

Miami (7x)

Charlotte (9x)

Dallas Fort Worth (8x)

Philadelphia (5x)

New York JFK (2x)

Phoenix (2x)

Youíre not telling me that perhaps half of the passengers couldnít have been re-accommodated on those services?

Plus thereís Delta and United. Plus thereís Virgin and Lufthansa.

So letís say roughly half the passengers could have got home the next morning (via a connection).

The aircraft would still have diverted. There would have been fewer hotel rooms to find as half the passengers would already be on their way.

There would have been fewer passengers to put on the day flight or alternative services from NYC. Perhaps some could have been put on a bus to Newark on alternative BA or United services?

The point is none of that happened. BA did what was right for them to keep costs low and screwed the passengers over. They deserve all the negative publicity.
LOL, even if, how many flights via ORD/PHL/MIA etc etc depart-ed after 20.30 had available seats and beside all this fantasising the problem was no longer the original sorted delay in Orlando but the subsequent disruption the second (recurrent) tech problem and diversion to JFK very early in the morning with very few available flights to rebook and very few if any available hotel rooms due to the NY marathon.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 6:03 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
Fundamentally disagree.

Iíve been in the air on US carriers before on itineraries where Iím going to miss a connection. Iíve been automatically rebooked whilst in the air on alternative routings.

Quite simply this should have been done the first time, with the guarantee that people would have got home soonest, as opposed to what was the most convenient (and cheapest option) for BA.
I think that folks who don't do a lot of domestic flights in the USA underestimate the complexity on the native hub and spoke system there. And consequently how good the Big Four carriers there have had to become in clearing delayed flights and delayed passengers and returning things to normal when there's a ground stop at a hub for a couple hours. This is one area where BA could learn from AA, which had to figure it out from the point when they decided that, hey, it makes sense for other reasons to put a hub in blizzard-prone Chicago.

As one of those Yankees who has been offered a fair number of rather creative rebookings (Sorry, but is there a better option to get from Florida to Scotland by way of San Francisco? Can we try that again?) from the local GAs, I also found myself wondering why BA was seeming to drag so much with offering other options when the East Coast hubs all have their share of later transatlantic red eye options. No, an unplanned transit of CDG or Madrid in order to get back home is not the ideal way to finish a trip, but at least you're getting yourself back onto the correct continent and that's a good first big step.

And yes, auto-rebooking and rebooking by phone app is an IT investment up front, but once you do it, you can probably reduce staffing costs and callback times and free up employee time for those cases where a ticket or situation is too complex to be handled by the phone app. There will always be issues when an airline is in ground stop recovery mode, but for everyday IRROPS when there is seat inventory available, the more people who can rebook online without assistance, the better it is for both passenger and company.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 6:04 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
Appreciate the info.

But by the time the aircraft went tech the first time, people should have been rebooked on JBA services via DFW/CLT/PHL/MIA/NYC/ORD before it even got stranded the second time in JFK.

Even sticking to BA/AA/IB/AY I'm sure this could have been done.
Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
But far more importantly, why is there the capability to automatically rebook passengers on the next available flight as the US carriers do?

Rather than some poor outsourced sap on the ground having to manually wade through hundreds of bookings?

Ah, I know, because it would cost Capex to do that, and thus some Waterside manager wouldn't get their bonus for that year for continuing to slash costs.
You've checked that there was availability for all passengers in all those flights in oder to make that statement, obviously? Or...
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Old Nov 4, 18, 6:41 pm
  #68  
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Based on my one experience of IRROPS at JFK I am not surprised it was handled badly. The attitude there was polite, but no attempt to be proactive, rebook etc. and flat out disbelief about rebooking outside JBA (this as a Gold in Club). BA holidays helpline were far more useful but as Iíd wasted time with the JFK ground staff it was too late.

I then took matters into my own hands and had a pleasant night in one of the Wís downtown and explored Manhattan. I gather BA arranged a shonky Best Western in the middle of nowhere and failed to inform anyone of their EU261 rights. Feel very sorry for those making trips of a lifetime or inexperienced in these situations.

BAís IRROPS has always been poor but the ďcut costs dailyĒ mindset seems to be making it worse.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 6:54 pm
  #69  
 
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Its all very well saying BA should have booked the passengers on other services, but which ones are they? The schedule departure was 21:20. After the tech problem had been Identified and the passengers offloaded it would be 22:20 at the earliest. What flights are there from MCO-LON after that? So sending the pax via DFW, ORD etc BA could not get the pax there in time for the trans atlantic flights that night. BA assumed the aircraft would be fixed next day, so much easier to put the pax in hotels and send them next evening. Of course it all went wrong after that, but at the time it was not forseen.

I quite agree that BA should put pax on other carriers when a tech problem causes a flight cancellation, but that can only be done if there are other flights available. The problem with late night departures from the USA is there are very few daytime flights to Europe to transfer the pax to.. And that late at night there are not many domestics to other hubs either. None of this excuses the disgraceful behaviour of BA in ignoring their EU261 obligations when the second tech issue arose and the aircraft diverted to JFK.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 1:38 am
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by oldone View Post
very few if any available hotel rooms due to the NY marathon.
so why divert there in the first place? As I understand it, they were 40 minutes out of MCO when they had the tech problem. As such there were multiple options, that would have had hotel rooms, PHL, IAD, BWI, CLT, BOS, or even EWR.
I cant believe that their Operations management were unaware of hotels situation when making the decision to go to JFK.


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Old Nov 5, 18, 2:23 am
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by zanderblue View Post


I cant believe that their Operations management were unaware of hotels situation when making the decision to go to JFK.
I do not wish to defend BA at all as I feel they have treated passengers badly here, and frankly I am not at all surprised. Arriving anywhere at 03:45 and suddenly requiring hotel rooms is difficult but we do also know BA gives up very easily.

However, operations staff will have been concerned for where they could land the aircraft as safely as possible with the highest chances of a speedy return to service. JFK is probably a very good choice for that as well as not too much of a deviation from the planned flight path and with frequent alternative connections to London. I am certain they did not for one second consider the hotel situation or any local events.

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Old Nov 5, 18, 2:46 am
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Yup, that s exactly the point I am trying to make. BA ops should have considered the hotels situation when deciding to go for JFK. Why select it on the grounds that it has more alternative flights to London and then not put passengers on those flights.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 3:04 am
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A story in The Sun shows various letters which were given to passengers - all offer apologies for the delay and inconvenience, not one mentions EU261. I think that shows BA in its true colours.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/765455...hday-on-plane/
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Old Nov 5, 18, 3:23 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by zanderblue View Post
Yup, that s exactly the point I am trying to make. BA ops should have considered the hotels situation when deciding to go for JFK. Why select it on the grounds that it has more alternative flights to London and then not put passengers on those flights.
Bottom line is that BA are exceedingly poor at managing irrops. It galls me to see them crowing about how well theyhave done and how the tended to the stranded passengers, when all the reports show this to be not the case.
Because apart from 1 those flights all depart in the evening, not 0400. More likely the reason was spare B777 crews in JFK.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 4:02 am
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by TomMM View Post
Anybody know what the tech issue was with the aircraft?
According to Avherald it was a high-temp warning on the gear, the crew descended to FL200 and deployed the gear to try and cool them off.
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