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Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:27 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: lavajava
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Key Information (thanks @corporate-wage-slave):

Original schedule

Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November

Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical

Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November

Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27

Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):

The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".

Compensation Information:

This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
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Old Nov 12, 18, 8:59 pm
  #166  
 
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Just out of interest, what is BAs general policy on claiming back expenses if you take matters into your own hands?

Say one of the passengers found a hotel in NYC for $500 (probably about average for NYC), would they pay?
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Old Nov 13, 18, 12:39 am
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Originally Posted by Adstring View Post
Just out of interest, what is BAs general policy on claiming back expenses if you take matters into your own hands?

Say one of the passengers found a hotel in NYC for $500 (probably about average for NYC), would they pay?
If you could demonstrate (for example via screen shots) that due to supply and demand $500 was the going rate in NY then BA would have to pay. EC261 does not restrict amounts in this area.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 1:42 am
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Adstring View Post
Just out of interest, what is BAs general policy on claiming back expenses if you take matters into your own hands?

Say one of the passengers found a hotel in NYC for $500 (probably about average for NYC), would they pay?
BA try to limit you to 200. The flyer they gave out actually said 200 per 2 people sharing.

However, as simon1 says, this is not enforceable.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 3:34 am
  #169  
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Originally Posted by SpeedbirdLHR View Post
The change in flight number would have been more to do with ATC and not having 2 flights in the air at the same time with the same flight number.
Absolutely...this makes sense. Thank you!

Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
I did wonder if this would come up! I bet BA will regard it as a single trip which just had 2 delays on it - and it was apparently caused by the same problem. And people would typically have one reservation for that trip. If EC261 had intended to add extra penalties for extended delays it would have said so, given it does curtail penalties for short delays. Generally I would say that BA would probably have good grounds for holding to one EC261, and I bet CEDR would agree. However in MCOL, if someone was able to persuade the court that this really was two trips, two delays, then I can see in some circumstances it may be successful on a balance of probabilities basis.
Thank you CWS, My understanding is the possibility is being discussed behind closed doors but I tend to agree and have advised my family members accordingly. I will update here if there is anything left to say on the matter
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Old Nov 13, 18, 4:10 am
  #170  
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Not quite the same, but this report on how Air New Zealand handled irrops at LAX is something BA could learn a thing or two from.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...r-plane-at-lax

Quote from the report :-

The queue at check-in was very long with only a couple of staff re-booking people. I actually phoned Air NZ to re-book (whilst waiting in line) with the help of an Air NZ rep who lent me her own phone and was told I got the last two seats for tomorrow on NZ5.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:19 am
  #171  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
Not quite the same, but this report on how Air New Zealand handled irrops at LAX is something BA could learn a thing or two from.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...r-plane-at-lax

Quote from the report :-
What exactly can BA learn here? Call centre agents can rebook onto BA/OW partners as well.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:24 am
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Andriyko View Post
What exactly can BA learn here? Call centre agents can rebook onto BA/OW partners as well.
  • Have a plan for when things go wrong.
  • Sort out hotels for passengers - don't just leave them to fight for themselves.
  • Generally look after the people that are affected.
Hardly groundbreaking stuff eh?
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:31 am
  #173  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
  • Have a plan for when things go wrong.
  • Sort out hotels for passengers - don't just leave them to fight for themselves.
  • Generally look after the people that are affected.
Hardly groundbreaking stuff eh?
I was referring to your quote. That NZ call centre staff rebooked the passenger onto another NZ service is not really surprising or unheard of, is it? I am not familiar with airlines that won't do that, so am not sure why point to NZ as an example to follow.

Regarding hotels - I wonder what NZ would have done if all hotels near LAX had been fully booked? I understand that this being FT people refuse to accept the reality and that hotels can get fully booked in which case there is really not a lot airlines can do. I would not confuse 'can't do' with 'won't do.'
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:37 am
  #174  
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
If you could demonstrate (for example via screen shots) that due to supply and demand $500 was the going rate in NY then BA would have to pay. EC261 does not restrict amounts in this area.
BA's guideline is just that, a guide. For a long time they didn't have (or publish) a guideline and going back a few years that caused anxiety for some passengers too, who wanted reassurance that their claim would be paid. I don't think there is a perfect solution here, except perhaps to give passengers a discount code or corporate rate code that can be used on one the large chains such as Hilton/Marriott/IHG. If that was used then BA would keep their costs down and know that genuinely the passenger was on a sensible rate.

That said, I've had a few irrops at JFK and LGA in sticky situations (e.g. bad weather when everyone is looking for a room) and so far the most I've paid in recent years is $240 (currently 185), and as little as $120. Queens and Brooklyn are a fair bit cheaper than Manhattan. But if genuinely the room rates were greatly higher then BA would have no choice but to pay up, and eventually they will do so.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:37 am
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Andriyko View Post
I was referring to your quote.
I picked one quote as random as I believe you need to include part of the report rather than just posting "blind links".

And the point of that quote was that AirNZ staff went out of their way to help by lending their personal phone so people in the queue could phone the helpdesk.

But, heck, leaving passengers to sleep on the floor helps the bottom line for the shareholders, so why should anybody care?
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:47 am
  #176  
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
  • Have a plan for when things go wrong.
  • Sort out hotels for passengers - don't just leave them to fight for themselves.
  • Generally look after the people that are affected.
Hardly groundbreaking stuff eh?
I've been around long enough to remember when BA would arrange hotels. At somewhere like JFK they could perhaps rustle up 5 agents to do exactly this. If you have 150 family groups to resolve (some needing multiple rooms, connecting rooms, rooms with particular facilities) realistically it take about 10 minutes per group, not least because it's often the first opportunity to offload complaints. And if you listen in on this, people tend to make the same point over and over again, in a healthy but time-consuming way. So 10 minutes is what it is. And if you do the maths, the person at the back of the queue is waiting 5 hours. Even if you throw 10 staff at it, it's still a multi hour wait for some. So the current system - where people are asked to sort themselves out and staff focus on vulnerable travellers (who were booked into hotels by BA in this incident) - isn't necessarily a bad idea.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:49 am
  #177  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post

But, heck, leaving passengers to sleep on the floor helps the bottom line for the shareholders, so why should anybody care?
Again, you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It is hard to argue with alternative facts. I can only assume that you mean that NZ would have created hotel rooms out of thin air. It is, of course, very reasonable and fair to compare a situation where you have an abundance of rooms to book and one where there are none. And that's disregarding the fact that those leaving that same day did not require an overnight accommodation.
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Old Nov 13, 18, 5:55 am
  #178  
 
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Old Nov 13, 18, 6:29 am
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Andriyko View Post
Again, you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It is hard to argue with alternative facts. I can only assume that you mean that NZ would have created hotel rooms out of thin air. It is, of course, very reasonable and fair to compare a situation where you have an abundance of rooms to book and one where there are none. And that's disregarding the fact that those leaving that same day did not require an overnight accommodation.
I've been trying to stay away from this thread but let's just look at what the article states vs what we know about this BA MCO flight:

- NZ immediately offered rebooking, incl over the phone (with agents offering their own phones to do so), they could've of course told pax to wait 2 days for the aircraft to be fixed, like BA did
- multiple agents handling rebooking
- provided chairs for pax to be seated while queueing
- provided a letter informing pax of the circumstances (despite no EC261 requirement to advise pax of anything)
- article references that other pax were re-booked on other flights, presumably on other airlines, this appears to have been done pro-actively and is also confirmed by a NZ rep in the article
- put up in airport hotel with meal vouchers (I am confident BA would've found rooms, even if they had to go further afield outside of the NYC metro area and bus pax for 30 mins into the sticks)

but really, donno what the fuss is about, BA handled the situation perfectly and people should stop getting wound up over it
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Old Nov 13, 18, 6:46 am
  #180  
 
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post

but really, donno what the fuss is about, BA handled the situation perfectly and people should stop getting wound up over it
Yes, people who were not on that flight should really stop getting wound up about it.

If you think that NZ would have done better in a similar situation then so be it. I find the insistence to compare these two completely different situations and to disregard inconvenient facts bizarre and unfair.

BTW, I never said that BA handled the situation perfectly - I questioned whether how NZ handled a cancellation at LAX was indicative as to how it would have handled a diversion under similar circumstances.
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