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Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

Flight From Hell [BA2036 MCO-LGW delayed then diverted to JFK]

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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:27 pm   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: lavajava
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Key Information (thanks @corporate-wage-slave):

Original schedule

Thursday 1 November BA2036 (Operated by G-VIIR)
MCO dep 2120
LGW arr 1025 - Friday 2 November

Delay Reason: Aircraft Defects/Technical

Actual schedule
Saturday 3 November BA2036
MCO dep 0032 (was at some point intended to depart at 19.25 on Friday)
Diverted: JFK arr 0345 Saturday 3 November
----------
JFK dep 2038 Saturday 3 November
LGW arr 0645 Sunday 4 November

Delay: 45 hours 40 minutes late for those who were not re-routed on to other services.
The rescue aircraft G-STBF left LHR at 12:52 and landed in JFK 15:27

Diversion Information (thanks @Globaliser):

The aircraft left MCO just before 0100 on 3 November as BA9601. It got to about Charleston, made a U-turn, and then another one when it was back near Savannah, before continuing northbound and diverting to JFK. ExpertFlyer.com says "aircraft forced to return" and also seems to say for this flight that the diversion to JFK was for "aircraft defects".

Compensation Information:

This delay should be in scope for 600 Euro delay compensation plus applicable/reasonable expenses. Please follow the link to the EU261 Compensation thread that contains a useful Wiki section.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 11:31 am
  #136  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
....people need to be able to either self-insure properly, or have a comprehensive insurance before travelling....
We need to be responsible here a bit...
BA needs to do exactly what Art.8 and Art.9 says they should do, irrespective of where their passengers are, San Diego, Santiago SCL, Scotland, Sydney, it doesnít matter, the passengers have absolute rights, BA needs to be responsible.
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Last edited by richardwft; Nov 6, 18 at 11:49 am
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Old Nov 6, 18, 5:47 pm
  #137  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
This is the norm in weather-related disruptions in countries without similar things to EU261 though. My last disruption cost me about £400 for the night (outside any coverage of EU261-like regulations). My insurance company and I wore it.

Really, people need to be able to either self-insure properly, or have a comprehensive insurance before travelling. What would they do if a serious disruption like the volcanic ash hits and they cannot afford the accommodation, they cannot fly out, they have to take unpaid leave, and they have no EU261 coverage?

We need to be responsible here a bit.

On a separate matter, FRA has corridor(s) with portable beds, I believe after they had issues with procuring accommodation during one of the snow chaos.
What a slanted view you must have of some of those poor people that have saved for months or even years to take their children or grandchildren to Disney World. I could quite well believe that when boarding their flight home, some have all their credit cards maxed out and not much available to support themselves in this situation.

Not many are of your ample means to fly F around the world as they please and “self insure” for hundreds of pounds. And no matter how good your insurance cover, you will always be paying up front and reclaiming. I know many people who could not cover that even if the amount appears trivial to you.

It was an unfortunate event, the aicraft went tech, BA chose to fly in an Engineer and parts across the atlantic and he got delayed by an unrelated event. After the repair failed, the aircraft was incapacitated enough again to have to divert while airborne. I would say BA’s processes as well as their attitude to paying passengers is validly being questioned here and no amount of deflection will change the fact that the handling was woefully inadequate and contrary to BA’s obligation under EU regulations.

And, as an aside. My last IRROP was with AA on a journey not covered by EU regulations. I received a perfectly good hotel, dinner, breakfast and transport provided as well as $150 in vouchers as an apology. All on the spot in the airport and without having to ask. I have great travel insurance but did not need it.

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Old Nov 6, 18, 5:58 pm
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post
I could quite well believe that when boarding their flight home, some have all their credit cards maxed out and not much available to support themselves in this situation.
In the absence of an extenuating circumstance such as a sudden illness that resulted in expending an inordinate amount of funds or other kind of events that are not easily foreseeable, I doubt many people are actually forced to max out their credit card while they are on holiday. It would be their choice how they spent the money, and then if they sleep on the airport floor because they ended up spending too much while they are on holiday - just a simple matter of priority in allocation of funds, i.e. keeping something for contingency or spending.

Excessive reliance on the system/other people/companies is not the best policy because it's the fact that businesses/other people/system do not always operate how they should or how we want.

We also seem to be forgetting that a family holiday to Florida, no matter what class it takes place in, is luxury regardless, and not some kind of a basic living requirement. If you are engaging in a luxury activity, then a reasonable contingency plan should be in place to cover unexpected expenses to a reasonable extent.

It is no different from allowing extra time to get to the destination in case of a traffic jam.

Originally Posted by Tafflyer View Post

Not many are of your ample means to fly F around the world as they please and “self insure” for hundreds of pounds.
You are quite welcome to swap and work up to 120 hours a week and "forced" to work on flights and thus needing to provide privacy and needing to avoid affecting other people on board (CW screen lets the light through from the laptop and can annoy the neighbour), resulting in needing to fly F. You are also welcome to spend thousands of hours volunteering to defend people who have been affected by true mistreatment with no fault or even adverse contribution of their own at the same time as carrying multiple medical conditions and injuries.
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Last edited by LTN Phobia; Nov 6, 18 at 9:27 pm
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Old Nov 6, 18, 7:10 pm
  #139  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
Really, people need to be able to either self-insure properly, or have a comprehensive insurance before travelling. What would they do if a serious disruption like the volcanic ash hits and they cannot afford the accommodation, they cannot fly out, they have to take unpaid leave, and they have no EU261 coverage?
I see a ticket on an EU airline as coming with a bundled-in EC261 'insurance' package. I often book an EU airline, and then skimp on the travel insurance I purchase, because I'd rather not pay twice for the same thing!
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Old Nov 6, 18, 9:17 pm
  #140  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
In the absence of an extenuating circumstance such as a sudden illness that resulted in expending an inordinate amount of funds or other kind of events that are not easily foreseeable, I doubt many people are actually forced to max out their credit card while they are on holiday.
I know a good number of people who have maybe a $2-3K limit total on their lone credit card. It's all they need in everyday life, but it's easy to bump up against that limit on trips, especially for a hotel bill still being processed or if they're waiting for a rental car hold to come off the card.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 9:35 pm
  #141  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
Excessive reliance on the system/other people/companies is not the best policy because it's the fact that businesses/other people/system do not always operate how they should or how we want.
A reasonable expectation that whomever I pay my hard-earned money to will keep their side of the bargain and comply with their legal obligations doesn't feel like "excessive reliance" to me.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 11:29 pm
  #142  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
We also seem to be forgetting that a family holiday to Florida, no matter what class it takes place in, is luxury regardless, and not some kind of a basic living requirement. If you are engaging in a luxury activity, then a reasonable contingency plan should be in place to cover unexpected expenses to a reasonable extent.

It is no different from allowing extra time to get to the destination in case of a traffic jam.
Allowing sufficient time to get to the airport is a reasonable precaution we all take.

Keeping spare credit on your cards in case BA delays you by days, forcing you to sleep on the airport floor, isn't reasonable. That is why it's the airline's responsibility to deliver the duty of care.

I must admit even by FT standards I find your arguments quite depressing and frankly out of touch with the world in which the majority of holidaymakers live.

This all reminds me of the last days of Flyglobespan which left a trail of devastation and then tried to weasel out of its responsibilities too.
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Old Nov 6, 18, 11:36 pm
  #143  
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post

Keeping spare credit on your cards in case BA delays you by days, forcing you to sleep on the airport floor, isn't reasonable.
Would you say the same if it is a disruption of a train for instance, necessitating an unscheduled overnight stop?
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Old Nov 7, 18, 12:21 am
  #144  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
Would you say the same if it is a disruption of a train for instance, necessitating an unscheduled overnight stop?
Your line of defence is getting weaker and more absurd with every new post. Probably better to stop now.
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Old Nov 7, 18, 12:32 am
  #145  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
Would you say the same if it is a disruption of a train for instance, necessitating an unscheduled overnight stop?
To wade in, Iíd suggest that is a pretty specious argument in this context.

In an ideal world we would all carry sufficient contingency around with us for any plausibly foreseeable event. However, in particular, Orlando is a destination that many scrimp and save to go to on, perhaps their only flight that year (or even ever), and might therefore not have the ability to allow such a level of contingency. They might also reasonably assume the airline is responsible in the event of some delay of this sort. Of course most of us here accept that that responsibility may well be applied retrospectively through compensation etc, but itís perhaps not reflective of those travelling on a special event type trip at great (and perhaps disproportionately great) expense.

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Old Nov 7, 18, 12:40 am
  #146  
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Originally Posted by thijsseh View Post
Your line of defence is getting weaker and more absurd with every new post. Probably better to stop now.
What's so special about flying that removes personal responsibility towards preparedness though? There are so many aspects of travel and obviously travelling is not limited to flying, but even if you limited it to flying, not all carriers and not all situations are covered by EU261? And not all 'extra expenses' during travelling are directly to do with transportation, e.g. what about if a child in the travelling party gets injured and needs a minor treatment that needs to be pre-paid? Would they have no funds for the treatment? That is clearly not a good idea.

This particular situation of BA messing up was covered by it but they appear to have been unable to arrange for hotel accommodation for everyone, although some passengers appear to have found their own, which I am sure they will be able to claim back from BA (and so they should).

But to say that some were 'forced' to sleep on the airport floor because they had no money to pay for a hotel seems rather ill-prepared for things that may go wrong during travel. Obviously BA should have had the hotel room ready and waiting for every single passenger before they even landed at JFK but things do not always work out perfectly (I'm sure they would pay for this dearly through adverse publicity).

That is the last thing I shall say on this thread on the matter.
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Last edited by LTN Phobia; Nov 7, 18 at 12:49 am
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Old Nov 7, 18, 12:53 am
  #147  
 
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All travellers need to be aware

Most of have travel insurance and most complete their travels without needing to trouble their insurers, but in the event of unforeseen circumstances, everyone needs to be aware of a few basics.

1). Try and remain calm.

2). Keep receipts for everything

Many inexperienced travellers, typically those on holiday, arenít used to claiming expenses, unlike business travellers. Sadly airlines wonít pay out without receipts even though stranded pax need to eat and sleep.

My extended family were caught up in the BA IT failure, but didnít keep all their receipts, not realising that they might get reimbursed. Easily done when stressed.
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Old Nov 7, 18, 1:03 am
  #148  
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Originally Posted by botham View Post
Many inexperienced travellers, typically those on holiday, arenít used to claiming expenses, unlike business travellers. Sadly airlines wonít pay out without receipts even though stranded pax need to eat and sleep.
They shouldn't really need to keep receipts, as BA should be providing "Duty of Care". This includes hotel accommodation, transport to the hotel and meals at the hotel.
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Old Nov 7, 18, 1:14 am
  #149  
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There's some assumption going on here that the standards of experienced travellers can be applied to everyone. Sage advice regarding insurance and so on, but when things go wrong not everyone does retain the presence of mind to calmly sort themselves out with some alternatives. EC261 exists for a reason, and it's not because the EU hates airlines. Rather, it was a very specific passenger protection response to airlines themselves pretty much abandoning their passengers at the first sign of problems.

I'm used to travelling a bit (though not to c-w-s standards), but even last week I completely forgot to obtain a receipt for 60 euros worth of parking at Brussels airport after a disrupted journey that started out 12 hours earlier in Lisbon. Easily done and tiredness, stress and so on all plays its part.
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Old Nov 7, 18, 1:23 am
  #150  
 
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
You are quite welcome to swap and work up to 120 hours a week and "forced" to work on flights and thus needing to provide privacy and needing to avoid affecting other people on board (CW screen lets the light through from the laptop and can annoy the neighbour), resulting in needing to fly F. You are also welcome to spend thousands of hours volunteering to defend people who have been affected by true mistreatment with no fault or even adverse contribution of their own at the same time as carrying multiple medical conditions and injuries.


I'm sorry, but all of the above is entirely your choice and completely under your control. If it is impacting your health that badly, please just stop!
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