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BA A350 - No first class cabin [initial deliveries 3 class, with 4 class to follow]

BA A350 - No first class cabin [initial deliveries 3 class, with 4 class to follow]

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Old Jan 16, 19, 11:58 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy View Post
.....in 5/6/7 years
Iím guessing more aircraft with a larger fuselage diameter than B787 and capable range may have been ordered by then.
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Old Jan 16, 19, 12:00 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy View Post
Which is roughly what they said about the 777s... "Oh no, we don't need to put flight crew rest on there, they won't ever go that far..." which then resulted in the "wendy house" in the First cabin when they DID need to send them that far, and subsequently by the installation of the OHFCR module into the aircraft.

Yes, I agree, the aircraft will be a great fleet addition/replacement and offer the capacity needed for more frequent rotations such as east coast US, but who is to say that in 5/6/7 years following delivery, they then start sending them somewhere else, only to be restricted by the decision of previous management.... Happened before and by the looks of it will happen again...

Hey ho... Short term gain, long term pain...
What is different this time is, across the 777 and 787 fleets they have range of aircraft offering 3 or 4 class, lower or mid passenger capacities and mid or long range. I think they have sufficient options whilst maintaining a high level of commonality across the fleet.
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Old Jan 16, 19, 12:29 pm
  #78  
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Well, we can but wait and see...
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Old Jan 16, 19, 12:48 pm
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It seems a strange plan that given the range of the 787-10 can fly to over 90% of BAs destinations to limit it to shorter long haul routes when no one really knows what the market will be like in 5-10 years with an aircraft that should fly 25-30 years.

Its quite a flexible aircraft and yet it will be severely limited in this configuration.
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Old Jan 16, 19, 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by BingBongBoy View Post
Yes, I agree, the aircraft will be a great fleet addition/replacement and offer the capacity needed for more frequent rotations such as east coast US, but who is to say that in 5/6/7 years following delivery, they then start sending them somewhere else, only to be restricted by the decision of previous management.... Happened before and by the looks of it will happen again...

Hey ho... Short term gain, long term pain...
The risk of "long term pain" is presumably an acceptable one to BA. They're not idiots and they know how to run an airline. It may well be that the economics of leaving out the crew rest still work, even if there is a risk that BA may have to reconfigure in 5/6/7 years. 5/6/7 years of a couple of extra CW seats doing daily rotations to JFK is worth a pretty penny, and it wouldn't surprise me if that revenue offsets any potential reconfiguration costs (which may not even arise).

As per the comments above, no-one knows what the market will look like in 5-10 years time. Some would say that that means that BA should configure their entire fleet to maintain maximum flexibility. I would say the opposite - it makes sense to me that BA would want to configure their fleet to maximize revenue in the market that exists today, rather than sacrificing present revenue to hedge against future uncertainty. It certainly makes sense to configure planes to work well on East Coast/JFK routes, as that's one rotation that definitely isn't going anywhere any time soon.
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Old Jan 16, 19, 1:07 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by GTR56 View Post
It seems a strange plan that given the range of the 787-10 can fly to over 90% of BAs destinations to limit it to shorter long haul routes when no one really knows what the market will be like in 5-10 years with an aircraft that should fly 25-30 years.

Its quite a flexible aircraft and yet it will be severely limited in this configuration.
The issue is that the 787-10 has a large cargo capacity and if fully loaded, then the range of the aircraft becomes restricted. The crew rest will add additional weight potentially further limiting the aircraft. As I understand it, the crew rest makes the aircraft uneconomical to run and the key routes that BA intends to use it on. It's been mentioned that most carriers opting for the 787-10 are opting not to include the cabin crew rest area.

My guess is that we will see BA use a mix of the 77W and the A350 on routes that need cabin crew rest areas. Also, there at some stage BA will need to place an order to replace the remaining 747s and some of the earlier 772s and who knows what we will see at that stage.
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Old Jan 17, 19, 1:34 am
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Originally Posted by GTR56 View Post
It seems a strange plan that given the range of the 787-10 can fly to over 90% of BAs destinations to limit it to shorter long haul routes when no one really knows what the market will be like in 5-10 years with an aircraft that should fly 25-30 years.

Its quite a flexible aircraft and yet it will be severely limited in this configuration.
At max capacity its limited to circa 4000nm, which puts West Coast USA and much of Asia out of range.
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Old Jan 17, 19, 1:45 am
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Originally Posted by 1010101 View Post
At max capacity its limited to circa 4000nm, which puts West Coast USA and much of Asia out of range.
This is not true at all. It will fly 330 passengers (typical 2 class) + bags and cargo over 6,430nm. Even further in BAs lower density configuration. A planes MAX range and optimum range are two very different things however. Just like QFs 789 can do LHR-PER. It has the range but again not itís optimum.

The 787-10 is designed to do very well in terms of a CASM on those 3,000-4,000nm sectors. Other planes such as the 789/359/351 have longer optimums and others less.
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Old Jan 17, 19, 4:23 am
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Originally Posted by george77300 View Post


This is not true at all. It will fly 330 passengers (typical 2 class) + bags and cargo over 6,430nm. Even further in BAs lower density configuration. A planes MAX range and optimum range are two very different things however. Just like QFs 789 can do LHR-PER. It has the range but again not itís optimum.

The 787-10 is designed to do very well in terms of a CASM on those 3,000-4,000nm sectors. Other planes such as the 789/359/351 have longer optimums and others less.
According to Boeing it is. Just over 4,000nm range at MZFW. It can do 6,430nm in Boeing's idea of a typical configuration, which may or may not match BA's idea of a typical configuration.

It's supposed to have excellent fuel burn characteristics but nobody is going be using it on anything bordering ultra long haul.
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Old Jan 17, 19, 5:01 am
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Originally Posted by 1010101 View Post
According to Boeing it is. Just over 4,000nm range at MZFW. It can do 6,430nm in Boeing's idea of a typical configuration, which may or may not match BA's idea of a typical configuration.

It's supposed to have excellent fuel burn characteristics but nobody is going be using it on anything bordering ultra long haul.
Iím not in any way suggesting ULH is a good idea. United is planning TLV-EWR flights with it. Thatís the longest so far. (5000nm) and averages 11hrs 30mins to 12hrs. Boeingís typical configuration is 330 pax. (290 for the 789). This is a lot higher than BAís so the planes at BA should go further than that.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 6:04 am
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Are you able to share how those are split? Cathay is 10 total, 6 in Y, 2 in J and 2 between W and J
3 in CW and 6 split between WT+ and WT.

If all 56 seats are between doors 1 and 2, then I'm not sure things bode well for the new Club World seat. If
The configuration will be similar to that of the 787-8. CW will be in all of the forward section, the mid section will have a small CW cabin, WT+ and WT. The rear section will be all WT.
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:15 am
  #87  
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Do we know yet how many deliveries will be 3 class and how many will be 4 class?
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:20 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by TRISTAR1979 View Post
Do we know yet how many deliveries will be 3 class and how many will be 4 class?
Is it still 4-class on the second batch? Various stories going around that it was to be dropped (possibly because the new CW seat is so amazing .....).
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Old Feb 12, 19, 9:40 am
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4000-6400nm isn't much of a range, plane wise

I'm sure you mean NM for nautical miles?
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Old Feb 19, 19, 5:17 pm
  #90  
 
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MAD to kickstart. DXB to really bed in the fleet.
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