Swearing passenger ruined first F

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Old Oct 31, 18, 6:58 pm
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Swearing passenger ruined first F

Just taken my long awaited first FIRST and unfortunately had it partially ruined by another passenger who thought it was acceptable to swear multiple times very loudy about the present of my 9 month old son. He didnít have the guts to look at us whislt he was letting off his foul mouth.

The passenger really put a sour taste on the trip (we was only 3 hours in of the 14+ flight). It put me on edge the rest of the flight not knowing if the passenger would become abusive or aggressive to myself, wife or son.

I spoke to the cabin crew member who told me to ignore him (he already knew which passenger it was).

The little one only made noise for about 1.5 hours of the entire 14 hour flight. FYI we are parents that always make sure the noise is kept down. He has flown across all classes and we have never experienced anything like it prior.

Not sure what replies Iím expecting here just letting off some steam.

Last edited by thecoogan; Oct 31, 18 at 7:34 pm
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:03 pm
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He certainly should not have been rude about it but also, maybe there is an element of under-recognition of the nuisance that your son may have caused by disturbing other passengers (or at least this swearing one) for 1.5 hours of a 14 hour flight by referring to it as "only" 1.5 hours?

For all you know, swearing may even have been a semi-automatic reaction to being woken up by the noise as he was falling asleep? Maybe it was also a long-awaited flight in F for this passenger and he was angry about having his flight "partially ruined" by being disturbed by the noise, or trying to work and being distracted by the noise?

Whatever that may have been, while it does not justify his conduct, we need to put ourselves in other people's position a bit in various situations, even if it galls us to do so, or even if the other person is in the wrong in some respect (i.e. in this case, the guys should have had more tolerance and certainly shouldn't have behaved that way, but also, recognising that the trigger to his behaviour was noise disturbance from your son).

It does not justify the behaviour of the passenger in any way, shape or form, but it is something that should be borne in mind that noise can be quite annoying for others, particularly in a confined space. People normally grit their teeth and put up with unpleasant situations even if it partially ruins their experience (or in some cases entirely ruins their experiences) but this guy obviously didn't, for whatever reason.

Many people choose to fly premium class (or some employers choose to put their staff in premium class) so that they can either work, sleep or rest in flight and I suspect there is a higher chance that people would hold more grudges against the noise disturbance in premium classes than in economy class, partially because it can stop them from achieving the aim of flying in premium class (whether that be productive work or sleep, or to relax), whereas not many people choose to fly economy class instead of other classes for better sleep or more productive work.

One approach to solving the issue could have been even to apologise to the person for the disturbance caused by the noise, although it makes it hard to do so when they are being rude like that. If he was swearing loudly, then perhaps he wanted you to hear it so that you'd recognise that the noise was annoying him but did not want to ask you to keep the noise down, and if that was the case, approaching him could have eased the situation. To me what he did was a wrong approach (for a start, I assume swearing so loudly would have annoyed other passengers, which if I were on board would probably have triggered me to approach him to stop swearing loudly, which I have done on a few flights).
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Last edited by LTN Phobia; Oct 31, 18 at 7:32 pm
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:27 pm
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Originally Posted by thecoogan View Post
He didnít have the guts to look at us whislt he was letting off his fowl mouth.
Wow. He must have been a real chicken.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
For all you know, swearing may even have been a semi-automatic reaction to being woken up by the noise as he was falling asleep?
Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
recognising that the trigger to his behaviour was noise disturbance from your son).
I was taking my quiet son at this point to the toilets to change him. So no, his trigger was seeing my son and not his noise.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 7:54 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
He certainly should not have been rude about it but also, maybe there is an element of under-recognition of the nuisance that your son may have caused by disturbing other passengers (or at least this swearing one) for 1.5 hours of a 14 hour flight by referring to it as "only" 1.5 hours?

For all you know, swearing may even have been a semi-automatic reaction to being woken up by the noise as he was falling asleep? Maybe it was also a long-awaited flight in F for this passenger and he was angry about having his flight "partially ruined" by being disturbed by the noise, or trying to work and being distracted by the noise?

Whatever that may have been, while it does not justify his conduct, we need to put ourselves in other people's position a bit in various situations, even if it galls us to do so, or even if the other person is in the wrong in some respect (i.e. in this case, the guys should have had more tolerance and certainly shouldn't have behaved that way, but also, recognising that the trigger to his behaviour was noise disturbance from your son).

It does not justify the behaviour of the passenger in any way, shape or form, but it is something that should be borne in mind that noise can be quite annoying for others, particularly in a confined space. People normally grit their teeth and put up with unpleasant situations even if it partially ruins their experience (or in some cases entirely ruins their experiences) but this guy obviously didn't, for whatever reason.

Many people choose to fly premium class (or some employers choose to put their staff in premium class) so that they can either work, sleep or rest in flight and I suspect there is a higher chance that people would hold more grudges against the noise disturbance in premium classes than in economy class, partially because it can stop them from achieving the aim of flying in premium class (whether that be productive work or sleep, or to relax), whereas not many people choose to fly economy class instead of other classes for better sleep or more productive work.

One approach to solving the issue could have been even to apologise to the person for the disturbance caused by the noise, although it makes it hard to do so when they are being rude like that. If he was swearing loudly, then perhaps he wanted you to hear it so that you'd recognise that the noise was annoying him but did not want to ask you to keep the noise down, and if that was the case, approaching him could have eased the situation. To me what he did was a wrong approach (for a start, I assume swearing so loudly would have annoyed other passengers, which if I were on board would probably have triggered me to approach him to stop swearing loudly, which I have done on a few flights).
While I agree that seeing things from another perspective can help us understand other people's behavior, IME, putting myself into another person's shoes when they're acting like self-absorbed jerks only makes me feel contempt for them. I can get to point of understanding he is irritated because his shiny little trip has been tarnished. But I stop even caring why when he responds to frustration by being a passive aggressive little {male sex organ}.
At that point, nothing good comes of me trying to project how I might act in his circumstance. Notice I say "act". At that point, I couldn't care less about how he "feels". He's acting like a grade A jerk and I wouldn't in his situation, nor do I give much of a pass for his bruised sensibilities.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is practicing empathy with a self absorbed, little twit who feels that his frustration gives him the right to try and make those around him miserable is self defeating for me. All it makes me want to do is grab him by the collar and shake him while telling him in words he'll understand to grow the hell up. Not to say I will grab him. But words might be exchanged if he keeps it up. Not pleasant words.
Sorry. It's not as nice as your way, but it's happened to me and that's where it ends up.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:06 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
Many people choose to fly premium class (or some employers choose to put their staff in premium class) so that they can either work, sleep or rest in flight and I suspect there is a higher chance that people would hold more grudges against the noise disturbance in premium classes than in economy class, partially because it can stop them from achieving the aim of flying in premium class (whether that be productive work or sleep, or to relax), whereas not many people choose to fly economy class instead of other classes for better sleep or more productive work.
We choose to fly in CW or F for better sleep with our son. Not sure why our reasons are any different from others.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:14 pm
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EDIT: I originally misread your post, I understand your position and frustration now.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:40 pm
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I was told to "Shut the f*** up" by a passenger in F. Crew and another passenger confirmed that I was not talking loudly. Wonder if it was the same misery guts?
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:41 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post

Many people choose to fly premium class (or some employers choose to put their staff in premium class) so that they can either work, sleep or rest in flight and I suspect there is a higher chance that people would hold more grudges against the noise disturbance in premium classes than in economy class, partially because it can stop them from achieving the aim of flying in premium class (whether that be productive work or sleep, or to relax), whereas not many people choose to fly economy class instead of other classes for better sleep or more productive work.
I still don't think it justifies what is, basically bullying another passenger.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 8:44 pm
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He obviously didn't realise he was on public transport. A private jet is what he needs.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:04 pm
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Originally Posted by Sealink View Post
I still don't think it justifies what is, basically bullying another passenger.
I think I made it abundantly clear in my post that it did not justify his behaviour... In fact I went as far to say that I'd have challenged him on his behaviour.

I do not think swearing in this situation amounts to "bullying" though, unless it was frequent but doesn't sound like it, because the opening post mentioned a specific time point of 3 hours into the flight, and "multiple times", which suggests that it wasn't done repeatedly over a period of time but rather what was said involved multiple swear words but the guy did not swear repeatedly for a length of time. It sounds more like an inappropriate behaviour/response that was probably borne out of anger and annoyance.

The word "bullying" in my opinion is frequently used far too lightly, and I say this as someone who has donated thousands of hours and tens of thousands of pounds to deal with acts of bullying and I hate it when it is used in a situation that is really not, because it 'lightens' the seriousness of the act of bullying and it makes it harder to deal with real bullying.

Originally Posted by thecoogan View Post


We choose to fly in CW or F for better sleep with our son. Not sure why our reasons are any different from others.
In that case, it should be even easier to see that causing noise disturbance to others (as you mentioned that your son was making noise for 1.5 hours) and making it harder for them to sleep etc. can potentially be particularly annoying for them, and you must be aware of the potential to disturb others should he become noisy.

Originally Posted by thecoogan View Post

I was taking my quiet son at this point to the toilets to change him. So no, his trigger was seeing my son and not his noise.
I assume he had, however, been disturbed by the noise while your son was making noise for 1.5 hours? Maybe he realised the source of noise then. It's not right to swear etc. obviously but maybe he was angry and was sort of aggressive/passive-aggressive about it because he didn't want to make a complaint.

If he plain didn't like seeing a young person in the cabin without having been disturbed, it's plain silly and it's his loss, really.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:14 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I think I made it abundantly clear in my post that it did not justify his behaviour... In fact I went as far to say that I'd have challenged him on his behaviour.
You did indeed. You simply proposed a more empathetic approach and, to me at least, a rather too submissive response (apologizing to him for the disturbance) in an attempt to defuse the situation. After all, everyone's going to be sharing a narrow tube for hours. It's not the way I'd approach it.
Some people think accommodation is equivalent to capitulation. I don't share that view.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:20 pm
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
You did indeed. You simply proposed a more empathetic approach and, to me at least, a rather too submissive response (apologizing to him for the disturbance) in an attempt to defuse the situation. After all, everyone's going to be sharing a narrow tube for hours. It's not the way I'd approach it.
Some people think accommodation is equivalent to capitulation. I don't share that view.
I do not think it is particularly submissive. It's simply my view that if I were the contributory factor to an issue arising, then I should take responsibility for that aspect without justifying their actions/reactions. It's definitely not an apology for his swearing behaviour - merely an apology for the disturbance. I'd still fully hold him responsible for his own conduct/reaction (I'd probably take up an issue his swearing and/or being loud after apologising for the disturbance, which is not exactly submissive, but of course, that would be easier to do if I weren't involved in triggering it!). It's quite surprising how quickly a simple apology and recognising how I may have caused them inconvenience can diffuse the situation. I've seen it happen on board, where a fuming person ended up being on the side of the people who caused them issues after a simple apology.

Besides that, I've managed to shut up quite a lot of people's loud swearing on board by speaking out, although I did not trigger their swearing in any way - they were merely irritating me by being loud (which I'd probably put up with them for a while and intervene after a while), and distressing some people who were more sensitive than me around them (now that, I do not like to see so an early intervention occurs). But to do that, if I had contributed the situation, then I must first apologise for my side, or I can't justify criticising them

IMO far too often there is a failure to recognise one's own conduct and the effects it might have on others, and blame the entire situation on others in the modern world and I am not happy to be a contributor to deteriorating consideration and empathy towards others (along a similar line, I wouldn't complain about the noise from a child if the parents were making an effort to control the situation, even if it's causing me to have my experience completely ruined, because clearly, they are trying to control the situation, and I may even try to help instead so that perhaps others can have a somewhat better experience). I'm quite disappointed to see that many people have become 'me, me, me, I don't care about others as long as I'm OK (and my travelling companions etc. are OK)'...

Aeroplanes involve us spending time a confined, small space with people that we may not normally wish to spend time with. A bit of empathy, consideration towards others' feelings (entirely bidirectional - e.g. everyone also needs to recognise others' need for sleep/peace/quiet, but everyone also needs to recognise that babies might cry and there may be nothing the parents could do to stop it), and making a bit of allowances towards others and generally trying to be nicer to people, even those who we might not find particularly nice, plus a good dose of pragmatism and stoicism, can help to make the experience less unpleasant.

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Old Oct 31, 18, 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia View Post
I do not think it is particularly submissive. It's simply my view that if I were the contributory factor to an issue arising, then I should take responsibility for that aspect without justifying their actions/reactions. It's definitely not an apology for his swearing behaviour - merely an apology for the disturbance. I'd still fully hold him responsible for his own conduct/reaction (I'd probably take up an issue his swearing and/or being loud after apologising for the disturbance, which is not exactly submissive, but of course, that would be easier to do if I weren't involved in triggering it!). I've managed to shut up quite a lot of people's loud swearing on board by speaking out, although I did not contribute to them - they were merely irritating me by being loud, and distressing some people who were more sensitive than me around them. But to do that, if I contributed, then I must first apologise for my side, or I can't justify criticising them

IMO far too often there is a failure to recognise one's own conduct and the effects it might have on others, and blame the entire situation on others in the modern world and I am not happy to be a contributor to deteriorating consideration and empathy towards others (along a similar line, I wouldn't complain about the noise from a child if the parents were making an effort to control the situation, even if it's causing me to have my experience completely ruined, because clearly, they are trying to control the situation, and I may even try to help instead so that perhaps others can have a somewhat better experience). I'm quite disappointed to see that many people have become 'me, me, me, I don't care about others as long as I'm OK (and my travelling companions etc. are OK)'...

Aeroplanes involve us spending time a confined, small space with people that we may not normally wish to spend time with. A bit of empathy, consideration towards others' feelings (entirely bidirectional - e.g. everyone also needs to recognise others' need for sleep/peace/quiet, but everyone also needs to recognise that babies might cry and there may be nothing the parents could do to stop it), and making a bit of allowances towards others and generally trying to be nicer to people, even those who we might not find particularly nice, can help to make the experience less unpleasant.
Totally get it. Intellectually, agree with it.
In the event, though, empathetic consideration of his circumstances only makes me less sympathetic to his actions. Since given the same circumstances, background issues notwithstanding, I would man up and not take out my frustration on a nearby family.
And since I view actions first and foremost, regardless of motivations (I was brought up an existentialist in that way), I have difficulty caring why bad actors do what they do. He's perfectly welcome to stew in his juices. He's not welcome to splatter the rest of us with that sour brew.
And someone upthread correctly identified his behavior as bullying. I don't stand by for bullies. I hate bullies. I say things to bullies.
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Old Oct 31, 18, 10:21 pm
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As always there is no right and wrong here.

By all accounts the kid was making noise for 1.5 hours which irritated the passenger. He retorted by letting off steam in an crude, unpleasant way - not acceptable but I understand why it happens if people are trying to rest.

I don't agree that you should have been apologising, sounds like appeasement to me. However life is short, best to move on.
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