Sunday Times Piece - "Sorry, BA, but new blazers aren’t enough"
Sep 30, 2018, 6:34 am
#17
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,588
BA is dead. Long live BA.
I used to be willing to pay a premium to fly BA over the "low-cost" airlines due to better in-flight service and better support when things go wrong. However, BA wanted to attract people who buy on price, so dropped all their advantages and introduced some lower fares. They succeeded - I now only fly them when cheaper than the alternatives. I used to believe that their staff made a difference. I still do, but their handling of the HK closure means that any goodwill from staff towards their job and hence BA is likely to disappear soon.
I used to be willing to pay a premium to fly BA over the "low-cost" airlines due to better in-flight service and better support when things go wrong. However, BA wanted to attract people who buy on price, so dropped all their advantages and introduced some lower fares. They succeeded - I now only fly them when cheaper than the alternatives. I used to believe that their staff made a difference. I still do, but their handling of the HK closure means that any goodwill from staff towards their job and hence BA is likely to disappear soon.
Sep 30, 2018, 7:08 am
#19
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Sep 30, 2018, 7:26 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,609
The point here is that the business seems to be ticking over quite nicely, despite the "problems", which are largely a matter of perception not obviously shared by many of the 45 million (and increasing) passengers BA flies.
The point about banks is spurious. I remember when the steam railways made a fortune (and anyway banks still do). A well run business will adapt to change, the difference in profit between the "golden age" and now demonstrates BA is doing that, and the usual suspects in terms of what people here complain about don't seem to be an enormous problem for most travellers. If you're a shareholder you would want to know what your investment will improve on the bottom line, not what some Sunday Times journalist thinks would make his or her day better when travelling.
The point about banks is spurious. I remember when the steam railways made a fortune (and anyway banks still do). A well run business will adapt to change, the difference in profit between the "golden age" and now demonstrates BA is doing that, and the usual suspects in terms of what people here complain about don't seem to be an enormous problem for most travellers. If you're a shareholder you would want to know what your investment will improve on the bottom line, not what some Sunday Times journalist thinks would make his or her day better when travelling.
Sep 30, 2018, 7:40 am
#21
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,427
We’re there many business that didn’t make a profit in 2008-09? I think it’s tough to say how much the financial crash impacted BA, other airlines & well all business. So maybe this is more indicative of the economical cyclical nature coupled with the cost cutting.
Sep 30, 2018, 8:43 am
#23
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
The ST journalist is basically looking for the sort of standards which any self-respecting airline (whether LCC or not) should itself be aspiring to.
I’m not sure how many of the ‘wish-list’ items could be considered anything other than simply basic and fundamental, most notably :
- adequate onboard lavatory facilities
- properly-cleaned aircraft
- a secure, properly-resourced IT system
- adequate catering supplies, with the necessary staffing ratio to deliver them, during the flight, to every passenger in need
- a modern, more environmentally-friendly fleet
And THEN ...... if you also wish to develop / maintain a solid reputation as a premium carrier :
- a cup of tea/ coffee for every s/h passenger
- wifi, USB & charging facilities at every seat
- high quality lounges (above all, at your home hub)
- an updated business class product for long-haul
It’s well worth noting that Alex Cruz is himself very conscious of the airline’s current shortcomings and alluded to them (well before the ST piece linked here by the OP) in an interview carried by Travel Weekly, back in January of this year.
- “We don’t have an internal project that says we are bringing BA back to the glory days – but we need to turn this airline around from the customer perspective,” Cruz admitted.
- “We know when we haven’t delivered up to the standards we should – and we are absolutely trying to remedy every situation that is bad”.
And - most importantly of all - on the promised new seats :
“....... now we have ground to make up with our competitors .........There will be more privacy, more space. There will be fewer seats”
Indeed, when you look at some of AC’s comments, the spirit and essence of what he says is perhaps not a million miles away from the views of the ST journo.
But of course the bigger question is whether the corporate will and motivation really is there to (in Alex’s own words) “turn this airline around”
Time alone will tell.
I’m not sure how many of the ‘wish-list’ items could be considered anything other than simply basic and fundamental, most notably :
- adequate onboard lavatory facilities
- properly-cleaned aircraft
- a secure, properly-resourced IT system
- adequate catering supplies, with the necessary staffing ratio to deliver them, during the flight, to every passenger in need
- a modern, more environmentally-friendly fleet
And THEN ...... if you also wish to develop / maintain a solid reputation as a premium carrier :
- a cup of tea/ coffee for every s/h passenger
- wifi, USB & charging facilities at every seat
- high quality lounges (above all, at your home hub)
- an updated business class product for long-haul
It’s well worth noting that Alex Cruz is himself very conscious of the airline’s current shortcomings and alluded to them (well before the ST piece linked here by the OP) in an interview carried by Travel Weekly, back in January of this year.
- “We don’t have an internal project that says we are bringing BA back to the glory days – but we need to turn this airline around from the customer perspective,” Cruz admitted.
- “We know when we haven’t delivered up to the standards we should – and we are absolutely trying to remedy every situation that is bad”.
And - most importantly of all - on the promised new seats :
“....... now we have ground to make up with our competitors .........There will be more privacy, more space. There will be fewer seats”
Indeed, when you look at some of AC’s comments, the spirit and essence of what he says is perhaps not a million miles away from the views of the ST journo.
But of course the bigger question is whether the corporate will and motivation really is there to (in Alex’s own words) “turn this airline around”
Time alone will tell.
Last edited by subject2load; Sep 30, 2018 at 8:48 am
Sep 30, 2018, 9:32 am
#25
Join Date: Dec 2016
Programs: BAEC GGL/CR; Hilton Diamond; Mucci des Puccis
Posts: 5,609
The wishlist of "basics" is really just stuff you want. The evidence from the numbers shows that BA is adding customers and becoming dramatically more profitable. Most passengers fly 2 or 4 times a year, they aren't remotely bothered about getting a cup of tea and a bag of pretzels chucked at them (but will pay for lounge access), they will get to the toilet at some point during a flight if they need to, and a very small proportion indeed will fly business class. Unless something goes drastically wrong they will have forgotten the flight 10 minutes after leaving the plane.
No one would say that BA's definition of what makes premium is the same as the Middle Eastern carriers, to take an example, or Cathay Pacific, but it's really not bad in comparison with competitors and equivalents elsewhere. If there is a compelling business case for investment in any of these areas, then you would expect someone within BA to make it - evidently some of the ideas are being adopted, such as an improved CW product, but it does take a lot of time and money to roll this out. I suspect that under analysis the case for many of these ideas isn't compelling.
It is just public transport, in the final analysis. If you have an alternative, take it.
No one would say that BA's definition of what makes premium is the same as the Middle Eastern carriers, to take an example, or Cathay Pacific, but it's really not bad in comparison with competitors and equivalents elsewhere. If there is a compelling business case for investment in any of these areas, then you would expect someone within BA to make it - evidently some of the ideas are being adopted, such as an improved CW product, but it does take a lot of time and money to roll this out. I suspect that under analysis the case for many of these ideas isn't compelling.
It is just public transport, in the final analysis. If you have an alternative, take it.
Sep 30, 2018, 10:18 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
And here lies the problem when making theses decisions.
Lavatory . I only fly CE so I wouldn’t even be aware of the problem
Lucky you - hope you are not one of those who get upset at the queues forming through the curtain to use the forward lavs
New Aircraft I love the 747 so please keep them as long as possible.
Again, great for you. But it's clearly not a passion common to all passengers
Training I have no problem with the staff and have never experienced the computer says no
Hope you're touching wood
WIFI. Personally I would remove it as I love the peace of being non contactable whilst in the air.
Turning off your phone should do just fine
Lounges yes some are poor but so are many other airlines
So that's all right then
CW Please keep the rear facing seats. Love the current style but find a way to make it all direct aisle access
And again, very few others seem to agree with you about the current style: I guess most simply put up with it.
RYAN Air BA is a country mile ahead of Ryan air but in today’s market short haul economy has to be competitive.
Still trying to make sense of that one
Sep 30, 2018, 10:30 am
#27
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GLA
Programs: BAEC: Silver. Nothing else as TopCashBack trumps all hotel programs
Posts: 801
There are a number of people on here who seem to romanticise the 747. To the extent that I wouldn't be surprised if they would be backing a return of the 707 and comet...
Fact is the 747 is now old, tired, loud, inefficient, has dry air, poor pressurisation. The list goes on. The newer birds are better in EVERY way.
And I agree about the wifi. a lot of the "old school" seem to act as if having the option of wifi on board is the same as the CC holding a gun to your head and saying "you will use this"!! Literally no reason to be against wifi. You simply don't have to use it if you don't want to...
Fact is the 747 is now old, tired, loud, inefficient, has dry air, poor pressurisation. The list goes on. The newer birds are better in EVERY way.
And I agree about the wifi. a lot of the "old school" seem to act as if having the option of wifi on board is the same as the CC holding a gun to your head and saying "you will use this"!! Literally no reason to be against wifi. You simply don't have to use it if you don't want to...
Sep 30, 2018, 10:41 am
#28
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,271
I suspect that BA are in the mindset of "all publicity is good publicity".
So the Journalist is just helping the Exec team's bonus..........for instance, by telling folk that BA can now be cheap.
So the Journalist is just helping the Exec team's bonus..........for instance, by telling folk that BA can now be cheap.
Sep 30, 2018, 11:14 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Provincie Antwerpen, Vlaanderen, België
Programs: MUCCI Gold
Posts: 2,512
There are a number of people on here who seem to romanticise the 747. To the extent that I wouldn't be surprised if they would be backing a return of the 707 and comet...
Fact is the 747 is now old, tired, loud, inefficient, has dry air, poor pressurisation. The list goes on. The newer birds are better in EVERY way.
And I agree about the wifi. a lot of the "old school" seem to act as if having the option of wifi on board is the same as the CC holding a gun to your head and saying "you will use this"!! Literally no reason to be against wifi. You simply don't have to use it if you don't want to...
Fact is the 747 is now old, tired, loud, inefficient, has dry air, poor pressurisation. The list goes on. The newer birds are better in EVERY way.
And I agree about the wifi. a lot of the "old school" seem to act as if having the option of wifi on board is the same as the CC holding a gun to your head and saying "you will use this"!! Literally no reason to be against wifi. You simply don't have to use it if you don't want to...
The 747 offers poor levels of comfort for those down the back for the reasons you rightly mention. I too want them gone as soon as possible.
Sep 30, 2018, 11:24 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: DUB
Programs: BA Gold; AA LTG MM
Posts: 103
Of course you're right for the vast majority of people on board a 747. However, as one of those fortunate enough to enjoy front-of-the-bus flying, my favourite seats across all aircraft are the window seats in the upper deck and row 1 of the 747, despite the age and scruffiness of the planes. I'll be sad to see them go, but know they're not sustainable long-term.