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Sunday Times Piece - "Sorry, BA, but new blazers arenít enough"

Sunday Times Piece - "Sorry, BA, but new blazers arenít enough"

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Old Sep 30, 18, 3:16 pm
  #46  
 
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Without rehearsing the numerous and hotly contested arguments around the quality of the BA product, and all the collateral discussions (economics, shareholder return, trends in aviation generally) that arise, my take on the article's punchline is basically that BA is mediocre, whereas it used to be a leader in its field. I agree entirely. The customer experience has deteriorated noticeably in my opinion under Cruz's leadership.

Cruz et al are not stupid, so one must assume that what they have done is all very calculated. Indeed, I (and most on here) continue to fly with BA regularly, although I have reduced the proportion of BA flights as a percentage of my overall flying. I firmly believe that the brand is very severely damaged. I base this on the fact that a very large proportion of people I speak to (most of whom are not regular flyers and arguably don't have huge insight into the nuances of air travel as the FT community) express negativity towards BA. It's not particularly vitriolic, but just tends to be an expression of surprise and/or disappointment around the BA offering, particularly BoB, paying for checked bags etc. I suspect it's very difficult to measure brand damage, but my own view is that the damage to the BA brand is pretty apparent, and I think the damage done by Cruz and co will be felt for years to come.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 12:10 am
  #47  
 
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Having flown Lufthansa SH a couple times in the last week - a stark contrast to BA SH - sufficient legroom, clean environment and no Bob - food/snack with a good range of drinks (including wine) provided. Clearly they too are living in a LCC environment, but are they trying to compete with it?
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Old Oct 1, 18, 12:34 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by CKBA View Post
Having flown Lufthansa SH a couple times in the last week - a stark contrast to BA SH - sufficient legroom, clean environment and no Bob - food/snack with a good range of drinks (including wine) provided. Clearly they too are living in a LCC environment, but are they trying to compete with it?
Lufty had the cramped short haul planes well before BA, with mega thin Recaro seating, and dumped a lot of routes on Eurowings.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 1:23 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by South London Bon Viveur View Post
Without rehearsing the numerous and hotly contested arguments around the quality of the BA product, and all the collateral discussions (economics, shareholder return, trends in aviation generally) that arise, my take on the article's punchline is basically that BA is mediocre, whereas it used to be a leader in its field. I agree entirely. The customer experience has deteriorated noticeably in my opinion under Cruz's leadership.

Cruz et al are not stupid, so one must assume that what they have done is all very calculated. Indeed, I (and most on here) continue to fly with BA regularly, although I have reduced the proportion of BA flights as a percentage of my overall flying. I firmly believe that the brand is very severely damaged. I base this on the fact that a very large proportion of people I speak to (most of whom are not regular flyers and arguably don't have huge insight into the nuances of air travel as the FT community) express negativity towards BA. It's not particularly vitriolic, but just tends to be an expression of surprise and/or disappointment around the BA offering, particularly BoB, paying for checked bags etc. I suspect it's very difficult to measure brand damage, but my own view is that the damage to the BA brand is pretty apparent, and I think the damage done by Cruz and co will be felt for years to come.
From a business perspective (and BA are a business, not a charity or parent figure) I would have thought that it is the brand damage effect on profitability that really matters and to be fair that isn't yet apparent in BA's case.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 1:29 am
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Yes and I will pile in too. There is no question in my mind that the B787, A350 and A380 are game changers for me, and have probably pushed my retirement back several years. The difference they have, particularly in terms of frequent, repeated travel is amazing. My patience with 777s generally, and 777-200 in particular is now spent and I largely avoid them on BA, AA and any other airline unless it's a short flight. 777-300 aren't so bad but I still choose alternatives where I can. And I still get the occasional 757 and 767s, which aren't great either. So there is no inverted nostalgia on my part.

However the 747 in UD, particularly in BA's Super J format, remains an excellent product in my opinion and remains my first choice.
The A350 and A380 are great aircraft and certainly better than their counterparts, but the B787 is a terrible experience simply due to the seating arrangement in Y. There's no point being well hydrated if you can barely straighten your knees and walk off the plane. I've made the mistake of travelling in this torture machine a couple of times now, struggling with pain in my legs for hours after landing, and will never do so again. Indeed, I'd proactively seek out a mid-journey stopover to avoid a direct long-haul flight in economy on a 787 in Y. The newly refurbished BA 747s are a much superior experience to the 787s if you're down the back, even if you have to spend a bit more time with the lip salve.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 1:50 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by CKBA View Post
Having flown Lufthansa SH a couple times in the last week - a stark contrast to BA SH - sufficient legroom, clean environment and no Bob - food/snack with a good range of drinks (including wine) provided. Clearly they too are living in a LCC environment, but are they trying to compete with it?
Lufty is much less threatened by LCC than BA. The German market is more tight than the UK ones and there are less LCC in general. Just look at FRA, where Ryanair just entered and EZY only have a handful of domestic routes courtesy of Air Berlin demise. Even in the other airports, there are less LCC presence in general (Berlin being maybe the exception).
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Old Oct 1, 18, 1:56 am
  #52  
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Originally Posted by fransknorge View Post
Lufty is much less threatened by LCC than BA. The German market is more tight than the UK ones and there are less LCC in general. Just look at FRA, where Ryanair just entered and EZY only have a handful of domestic routes courtesy of Air Berlin demise. Even in the other airports, there are less LCC presence in general (Berlin being maybe the exception).
You could really say the same at LHR... very few LCCs other than BA
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:28 am
  #53  
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There is not a LGW equivalent in FRA (HHN really does not count for that much traffic) neither the same amount of German based LCC versus Jet2, EZY, ... in the UK. Only Eurowings, which belong to Lufthansa. Germania is virtually non existent except for a niche market, Air Berlin is dead and was never low cost really.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:38 am
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Originally Posted by PJSMITH0 View Post


And here lies the problem when making theses decisions.

IT Completely agree
Lavatory . I only fly CE so I wouldnít even be aware of the problem
Cleaners Completely agree
New Aircraft I love the 747 so please keep them as long as possible.
Training I have no problem with the staff and have never experienced the computer says no
WIFI. Personally I would remove it as I love the peace of being non contactable whilst in the air.
Lounges yes some are poor but so are many other airlines
CW Please keep the rear facing seats. Love the current style but find a way to make it all direct aisle access
RYAN Air BA is a country mile ahead of Ryan air but in todayís market short haul economy has to be competitive. I hate Ryan air but despite my considered failings of that airline they fly with over 96% occupancy.

Bottom line is I believe IAG know they have to up their game, but whilst the profits stack up they will do it at their own pace

"I only fly CE so I wouldnít even be aware of the problem" You've not had to wait behind hoards of ETs with crossed legs queuing at the front of the plane?
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:45 am
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Yeoman5 View Post
"I only fly CE so I wouldnít even be aware of the problem" You've not had to wait behind hoards of ETs with crossed legs queuing at the front of the plane?
as someone who also travels in CE often I would have to say no to that one. on a few occasions maybe one passenger waiting but no more, definitely no "hoards"
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Old Oct 1, 18, 2:48 am
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Originally Posted by Yeoman5 View Post
"I only fly CE so I wouldnít even be aware of the problem" You've not had to wait behind hoards of ETs with crossed legs queuing at the front of the plane?
Bit like "WIFI. Personally I would remove it as I love the peace of being non contactable whilst in the air."

Standard 'me first' stuff really.....I don't use WIFI so it isn't important. You quite often get this on FT.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 3:00 am
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I understand the nostalgia surrounding the 747, but I am one of those who can't wait to see it go. It's just time for it to retire.
Some of my earliest memories of travel was flying that wonderful 4 engine queen of the skies. However, if I have fly 4 engines, I now take the A380 where possible.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 8:38 am
  #58  
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Originally Posted by SQTraveller View Post
I understand the nostalgia surrounding the 747, but I am one of those who can't wait to see it go. It's just time for it to retire.
Some of my earliest memories of travel was flying that wonderful 4 engine queen of the skies. However, if I have fly 4 engines, I now take the A380 where possible.
I believe the old girl was 50 yesterday and I agree, retirement is now overdue.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 9:56 am
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Retiring the BA 747s would help with Noise at LHR. The BA 747s with the RR engines are the noisiest planes flying at LHR.
However, money talks, so I guess they have a few years left in some of them.
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Old Oct 1, 18, 9:59 am
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Dover2Golf View Post
I believe the old girl was 50 yesterday ...
Although none of BA's remaining aircraft are anything like that old! The three oldest are about 28, and all of them had major work done three years ago when they were converted from high-J (70J) to mid-J (52J). And on current (known) plans, it looks like two of these three will retire by the end of the year.
Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
However, money talks, so I guess they have a few years left in some of them.
We know how long is planned: all gone by February 2024.
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