BoB - Success, Failure or just head in the clouds?
Aug 31, 18, 4:30 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,073
BoB - Success, Failure or just head in the clouds?
It’s been long enough to measure the impact of Buy on Board on short haul routes, or has it?
When rumours started on FT about BoB coming to BA it caused quite a commotion, understandably. But it’s here, it’s up there and it’s been 2 years since they announced it and 18 months since it’s inception.
The question here is...is it a success or failure? Or does it simply not matter and it’s just how the market is so BA will stick their head in the clouds and BoB is not going anywhere...
Do you customers (like me) still despise it? Or is the best thing BA has done to shorthaul?
When rumours started on FT about BoB coming to BA it caused quite a commotion, understandably. But it’s here, it’s up there and it’s been 2 years since they announced it and 18 months since it’s inception.
The question here is...is it a success or failure? Or does it simply not matter and it’s just how the market is so BA will stick their head in the clouds and BoB is not going anywhere...
Do you customers (like me) still despise it? Or is the best thing BA has done to shorthaul?
Aug 31, 18, 4:38 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Lisboa
Programs: BAEC Gold, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire, Easyjet Flight Club
Posts: 376
It’s been long enough to measure the impact of Buy on Board on short haul routes, or has it?
When rumours started on FT about BoB coming to BA it caused quite a commotion, understandably. But it’s here, it’s up there and it’s been 2 years since they announced it and 18 months since it’s inception.
The question here is...is it a success or failure? Or does it simply not matter and it’s just how the market is so BA will stick their head in the clouds and BoB is not going anywhere...
Do you customers (like me) still despise it? Or is the best thing BA has done to shorthaul?
When rumours started on FT about BoB coming to BA it caused quite a commotion, understandably. But it’s here, it’s up there and it’s been 2 years since they announced it and 18 months since it’s inception.
The question here is...is it a success or failure? Or does it simply not matter and it’s just how the market is so BA will stick their head in the clouds and BoB is not going anywhere...
Do you customers (like me) still despise it? Or is the best thing BA has done to shorthaul?
Aug 31, 18, 4:53 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,434
For me, it's been the final straw in BA's service cuts that's tipped me over the edge to try other carriers for both short-haul and long-haul.
On Monday, I'll become a LH Senator, on paid personal travel. I have to say, the LH Group experience across LH/LX/OS (not tried SN), in economy, business and first, is just better.
With the notable exception of the abomination that is connecting at FRA (when not in First) which makes Heathrow look the best run airport in the world.
On Monday, I'll become a LH Senator, on paid personal travel. I have to say, the LH Group experience across LH/LX/OS (not tried SN), in economy, business and first, is just better.
With the notable exception of the abomination that is connecting at FRA (when not in First) which makes Heathrow look the best run airport in the world.
Aug 31, 18, 5:05 pm
#4
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brexile in ADB
Programs: BA, TK, HHonours, Le Club, Best Western Rewards
Posts: 7,067
Same here, possibly not something which has actually effect me that much but it has changed my perception of BA and coincided with shifting a significant amount of travel away from BA.
Aug 31, 18, 7:01 pm
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,268
When US carriers eliminated meals on almost all domestic economy service. there were dire predictions that nobody would fly UA / DL / AA and that massive shifts in favor of LCC's would occur. It never happened.
Those who crave airline food will pay for it and the rest will buy something before departure.
Those who crave airline food will pay for it and the rest will buy something before departure.
Aug 31, 18, 7:16 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Cambridge
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,831
Personally, I think it is a good thing. Much of my EU travel is arranged through the company TA and requires multiple quotes. It is noticeable how frequently BA are cost competitive against U2 and others, saving me that journey around the M25.
Aug 31, 18, 8:40 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridport, Dorset
Programs: Mucci, BA Bronze, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,022
I always book CE these days, but BA Y fares are terrific now, especially obviously when booking in advance, and even last minute when compared to LCCs. So er, there's that.
Aug 31, 18, 8:47 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London
Programs: Lowly blue, sometimes Bronze
Posts: 680
I have no issue with it other than continual chronic under catering.
If people are traveling at lunch time they will eat. So BA load minimal sandwiches etc. Why. There is no logic to it.
If people are traveling at lunch time they will eat. So BA load minimal sandwiches etc. Why. There is no logic to it.
Aug 31, 18, 10:56 pm
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 28,751
I still despise it and it has participated in changing my perception of ba’s identity as a airline.
The impact has been surprisingly close to what I predicted at the time. I’m not one from grand gestures but I recalibrate between the different airlines I use when the proposition changes. So I never said I’d boycott ba or anything but they became less of a priority especially on connecting long haul in Y, J, and F as well as connecting short haul (usually in Y sometimes in C). Indeed, I just booked a connecting Y KL flight after hesitating with BA. Timings were similar, mileage earning would be relatively similar, and BA was marginally more and I am quite certain that I would have chosen them before on that itinerary, but on this one I decided that they were not worth the difference.
Overall, my ba activity has gone down by about 30% in the period whilst my overall travel is stable this year and went up last year.
On point to point I’ve done a greater proportion of lcy flights. Perhaps the most striking change: in the whole period only one of my lgw flights has been with ba whilst they were at least monthly before.U2 and DY have benefited as well as a few other random airlines (not really FR which I do not like flying).
I can hear people protest "but then if you fly BA less in J and F, it's nothing to do with BoB right?" but they are wrong. I'm just consistent with what I have always said, to me, the whole logic of saying one cause produces one effect is a mistaken approach which does not in any way resemble the way in which human decisions are made. Our brain (and "heart" if you like to call it that way) tends to take holistic approaches to thinks and is far more sophisticated than that.
BoB is one element which affects the value you get from the airline as well as the image you have of it, and that has an impact on all of your decisions where the airline product is a proposal and not just the ones the airline would want you to arbitrate on. Any thought that "at worst, we'll lose the cheap Y European flight but he'll still fly with us on those long haul J and F" is a complete miscalculation which misunderstands the whole nature of human decision or is stuck in teenage lists of "pros" and "cons" columns. Decisions react to overall assessments, perceptions, signals, and a certain element of brain automation. To caricature, a number of changes including BoB mean that for my LGW flights, I no longer start from the assumption that I might as well fly BA if their fare is reasonable which I used to do before. Ex-LHR my calculation is different because my CCR access still gives me value, but paradoxically, that mostly protects my Y flying because things start evening out in J let alone F.
One of my friends who mostly flies long haul J and short haul Y, all typically connecting, has also completely switched away from BA in large part due to BoB. That annoyed her enough to find their short haul Y offer "Easyjetesque", but because she flies less than me and can really only get top status with one alliance, switching her Y European flights to AF-KL, she has moved her long haul (almost all J) to them at the same time.
Unintended consequences perhaps.
The impact has been surprisingly close to what I predicted at the time. I’m not one from grand gestures but I recalibrate between the different airlines I use when the proposition changes. So I never said I’d boycott ba or anything but they became less of a priority especially on connecting long haul in Y, J, and F as well as connecting short haul (usually in Y sometimes in C). Indeed, I just booked a connecting Y KL flight after hesitating with BA. Timings were similar, mileage earning would be relatively similar, and BA was marginally more and I am quite certain that I would have chosen them before on that itinerary, but on this one I decided that they were not worth the difference.
Overall, my ba activity has gone down by about 30% in the period whilst my overall travel is stable this year and went up last year.
On point to point I’ve done a greater proportion of lcy flights. Perhaps the most striking change: in the whole period only one of my lgw flights has been with ba whilst they were at least monthly before.U2 and DY have benefited as well as a few other random airlines (not really FR which I do not like flying).
I can hear people protest "but then if you fly BA less in J and F, it's nothing to do with BoB right?" but they are wrong. I'm just consistent with what I have always said, to me, the whole logic of saying one cause produces one effect is a mistaken approach which does not in any way resemble the way in which human decisions are made. Our brain (and "heart" if you like to call it that way) tends to take holistic approaches to thinks and is far more sophisticated than that.
BoB is one element which affects the value you get from the airline as well as the image you have of it, and that has an impact on all of your decisions where the airline product is a proposal and not just the ones the airline would want you to arbitrate on. Any thought that "at worst, we'll lose the cheap Y European flight but he'll still fly with us on those long haul J and F" is a complete miscalculation which misunderstands the whole nature of human decision or is stuck in teenage lists of "pros" and "cons" columns. Decisions react to overall assessments, perceptions, signals, and a certain element of brain automation. To caricature, a number of changes including BoB mean that for my LGW flights, I no longer start from the assumption that I might as well fly BA if their fare is reasonable which I used to do before. Ex-LHR my calculation is different because my CCR access still gives me value, but paradoxically, that mostly protects my Y flying because things start evening out in J let alone F.
One of my friends who mostly flies long haul J and short haul Y, all typically connecting, has also completely switched away from BA in large part due to BoB. That annoyed her enough to find their short haul Y offer "Easyjetesque", but because she flies less than me and can really only get top status with one alliance, switching her Y European flights to AF-KL, she has moved her long haul (almost all J) to them at the same time.
Unintended consequences perhaps.
Last edited by orbitmic; Sep 1, 18 at 12:48 am
Sep 1, 18, 12:26 am
#10
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci.
Posts: 1,993
Have refused to fly Y ever since !
its a perception thing
ill happy do it in flybe because thats what they are about
BA still means to me an airline from the old era ; it still just about achieved this in CE
I had a great flight back the other night from Jersey in CE row 1!
When you here the announcemnt sbout BOB and no cash I just think .... No!
I do think I am very much out of kilter with the mainstream travelling public. The mass transit by Ryanair et al is all people want . I think the anti BOB flyertalk bregade are a shrinking microcosm who still hang on to the the thrill of flying
its a perception thing
ill happy do it in flybe because thats what they are about
BA still means to me an airline from the old era ; it still just about achieved this in CE
I had a great flight back the other night from Jersey in CE row 1!
When you here the announcemnt sbout BOB and no cash I just think .... No!
I do think I am very much out of kilter with the mainstream travelling public. The mass transit by Ryanair et al is all people want . I think the anti BOB flyertalk bregade are a shrinking microcosm who still hang on to the the thrill of flying
Sep 1, 18, 12:27 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Programs: BAEC bouncing from Blue to Gold to Blue VSFC Red CXGreen Club Accor Platinum Hilton Silver.
Posts: 909
I think BOB was a good idea because it's encouraged me to try elsewhere and generally I've been happy with the LCC flights I have taken. The downside for BA is I have also moved a lot of my long haul flights to other OneWorld airlines as a result of BOB and I find AA QR QF CX a much better over all experience (I would before BOB automatically booked BA). As for cheaper EU flights as a result of BOB, I'm not finding that works a last minute flight to AMS on BA £635 return in Y. LCC's were about half that price. Where BA did score was a RFS for £35.
P.S. on the flight to AMS I only saw 2 purchases to row 20 and when someone asked for water and he didn't get it until we were well into the descent just before the 10 mins warning.
John
P.S. on the flight to AMS I only saw 2 purchases to row 20 and when someone asked for water and he didn't get it until we were well into the descent just before the 10 mins warning.
John
Sep 1, 18, 12:32 am
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
Normally all three EU airline groups including BA, AFKL and LH group move in the same motion. One company starts one direction and the other follows. So if we use that as a yardstick, I would say BOB is a failure as the other two have not jumped the ship yet.
But if you look at the loading factor from BA it seems the beancoubters have won so far.
But if you look at the loading factor from BA it seems the beancoubters have won so far.
Sep 1, 18, 12:38 am
#13
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,312
I dislike BoB intensely so I am either in CE, or I eat and drink in the lounge then go to sleep on the aircraft. If their is no lounge and it is a long flight, I buy something before flight to take on board.I have never actually purchased anything from BoB.
Sep 1, 18, 12:59 am
#14
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MME (midway between NCL and LBA)
Programs: BA Gold, AF/KL Gold, Hilton Gold, Nordic Choice Gold
Posts: 724
As someone who hated the ET catering, BOB now gives me the option to buy something tasty to eat so I would see that aspect as an improvement.
However paying extra for a G&T on a Y flight which has already cost £500 doesn’t feel right. I know Cruz said something about people who pay £69 for a flight shouldn’t be expecting free drinks but I do expect them when I have paid more for a flight from London to Düsseldorf than for one to New York.
However paying extra for a G&T on a Y flight which has already cost £500 doesn’t feel right. I know Cruz said something about people who pay £69 for a flight shouldn’t be expecting free drinks but I do expect them when I have paid more for a flight from London to Düsseldorf than for one to New York.
Sep 1, 18, 1:15 am
#15
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Glasgow and Asia
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hotels.com Gold
Posts: 510
I never BOB I UAOB.
On way back from PEK to GLA via LHR in WT+ the LHR-GLA leg was BoB so I Used Avios On Board. :-)
The Only downside of BoB is where I sit on a flight. If I want a G'n'T I don't book the exit row in Y because by the time the crew get there I will have 5 mins to gulp it down.
So I book two rows behind the CE cabin to get served in time to sip my Gin. So BoB has had an effect on me by preventing my exit row choice. However, it is hardly the end of teh world for a 1 hour flight :-)
On way back from PEK to GLA via LHR in WT+ the LHR-GLA leg was BoB so I Used Avios On Board. :-)
The Only downside of BoB is where I sit on a flight. If I want a G'n'T I don't book the exit row in Y because by the time the crew get there I will have 5 mins to gulp it down.
So I book two rows behind the CE cabin to get served in time to sip my Gin. So BoB has had an effect on me by preventing my exit row choice. However, it is hardly the end of teh world for a 1 hour flight :-)
