Bad [hard] landing on BA2768 [LGW-JER]
Aug 27, 2018, 11:49 am
#31
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Any landing you walk away from is a good landing. We all have to start somewhere, in reference to your two striper. Maybe a gust of wind just before touchdown causing the aircraft to drop and cause a heavy landing. I would imagine in a blame/claim culture I’m sure you could claim. Personally the fact you needed to post on here about it kinda saddens me.
Our Captain said exactly that - a landing that you walk away from is a good landing. What I do find idiotic are these idiot applauding each and every landing as thought the Flightdeck could hear.
Aug 27, 2018, 12:04 pm
#32
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 499
Exactly so. When I think of landings at Funchal, the old Kai Tak, and Gibraltar, it’s quite laughable. Once landing at FCO. Tthe wind changed at the last minute and we slammed onto the runway, bounced back into the air and bang again. I was astonished that the aircraft wasn’t damaged.
Our Captain said exactly that - a landing that you walk away from is a good landing. What I do find idiotic are these idiot applauding each and every landing as thought the Flightdeck could hear.
In the event someone actually is injured or the airplane is damaged and cannot be flown again without repair, that is not a "good landing." Possibility of damage to the airplane is also not trivial but there is procedure to sort that as well. Reply #11 covers this as well.
Aug 27, 2018, 12:10 pm
#33
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I defer to the pilots on here, but I can assume that the “hump” at the touchdown point (see Post #7 ) means that the runway tends to ‘jump up and hit you’ just as you flare after a nice stabilised approach.
Aug 27, 2018, 12:15 pm
#34
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i count myself lucky cause an overseas flight from berlin to usa was delayed 5 hours, gave me more time to sleep in and enjoy berlin and got paid 600 euro to do so...so it depends
Aug 27, 2018, 12:51 pm
#35
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 499
Here is a landing five people walked away from, but I doubt it would be called "good." https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR0002.pdf
This one was about the same but unfortunately there was no walking away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80 We had arrived at NRT only four days before that accident. Hard landings are no laughing matter though deficiencies in the MD11-F design were the main criticisms in the accident reports.
I don't think there is a record of injuries or fatalities to commercial passengers in the hard landing of a regularly scheduled passenger aircraft not associated with a pre-existing emergency and excluding some horrific short of runway landings, or runway excursion accidents. It is rightly pointed out that a "hard landing" may be the intended alternative to running off the runway. Here is a sample for the year 2012 involving substantial damage and/or fatalities. Of 30 accidents listed 5 are "hard landings" but none of those involved fatalities. Injuries are not listed.
This one was about the same but unfortunately there was no walking away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80 We had arrived at NRT only four days before that accident. Hard landings are no laughing matter though deficiencies in the MD11-F design were the main criticisms in the accident reports.
I don't think there is a record of injuries or fatalities to commercial passengers in the hard landing of a regularly scheduled passenger aircraft not associated with a pre-existing emergency and excluding some horrific short of runway landings, or runway excursion accidents. It is rightly pointed out that a "hard landing" may be the intended alternative to running off the runway. Here is a sample for the year 2012 involving substantial damage and/or fatalities. Of 30 accidents listed 5 are "hard landings" but none of those involved fatalities. Injuries are not listed.
Last edited by CALlegacy; Aug 27, 2018 at 1:23 pm
Aug 27, 2018, 1:19 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,063
Here is a landing five people walked away from, but I doubt it would be called "good." https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR0002.pdf
This one was about the same but unfortunately there was no walking away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80 We had arrived at NRT only four days before that accident. Hard landings are no laughing matter though deficiencies in the MD11-F design were the main criticisms in the accident reports.
I don't think there is a record of injuries or fatalities to commercial passengers in the hard landing of a regularly scheduled passenger aircraft not associated with a pre-existing emergency and excluding some horrific short of runway landings, or runway excursion accidents. It is rightly pointed out that a "hard landing" may be the intended alternative to running off the runway.
This one was about the same but unfortunately there was no walking away https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedEx_Express_Flight_80 We had arrived at NRT only four days before that accident. Hard landings are no laughing matter though deficiencies in the MD11-F design were the main criticisms in the accident reports.
I don't think there is a record of injuries or fatalities to commercial passengers in the hard landing of a regularly scheduled passenger aircraft not associated with a pre-existing emergency and excluding some horrific short of runway landings, or runway excursion accidents. It is rightly pointed out that a "hard landing" may be the intended alternative to running off the runway.
It is is important to understand that for a pilot the landing manoeuvre includes the touchdown but it is much more than that. We emphasise on speed, in the right place, within the aircraft parameters using the correct technique. A smooth touchdown will result from all of these but it is not emphasised. A greaser where you have used up half the runway is not a good landing neither the is burying it at the piano keys.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:20 pm
#37
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I defer to the pilots on here, but I can assume that the “hump” at the touchdown point (see Post #7 ) means that the runway tends to ‘jump up and hit you’ just as you flare after a nice stabilised approach.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:24 pm
#38
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
In the event someone actually is injured or the airplane is damaged and cannot be flown again without repair, that is not a "good landing." Possibility of damage to the airplane is also not trivial but there is procedure to sort that as well. Reply #11 covers this as well.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:38 pm
#40
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Meanwhile, were the passengers sitting sensibly? Seat upright (no leaning it back after the crew tell you to put it upright), seat belt low tight against the hips (so you're sitting back in the seat with your lower back against the seat rest), looking ahead, both feet on the floor, hands on your thighs, knees at 90 degrees or so? Take some hints from how the cabin crew sit.
If not, sit well and you'll have fewer back problems in life, whether in a landing aircraft or other times.
If not, sit well and you'll have fewer back problems in life, whether in a landing aircraft or other times.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:48 pm
#41
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OK, gliders and puddle-jumpers, but it surely still counts?
Aug 27, 2018, 1:52 pm
#42
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,063
There’s a programme on Channel 4 - Flying Across Britain with Arthur Williams. Arthur is a very engaging ex Marine with a real love of flying but he only started flying after he ended up in a wheel chair. He disproves the aphorism as he has, by his own words, never walked away from any of his landings.
Aug 27, 2018, 1:54 pm
#43
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There’s a programme on Channel 4 - Flying Across Britain with Arthur Williams. Arthur is a very engaging ex Marine with a real love of flying but he only started flying after he ended up in a wheel chair. He disproves the aphorism as he has, by his own words, never walked away from any of his landings.
Aug 27, 2018, 3:21 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 499
It is never required to do a hard landing to avoid running off the end of the runway. All landings, including those with failures etc are carried out after carrying out a landing distance check which takes in account the state of the runway, weather and aircraft. These figures are very good, I landed a TriStar with a flap failure where we expected to have 700 metres of runway remaining when we stopped. The ground run monitor read 810m when we actually stopped. There is never a requirement to land heavily in any of these situations, but there is no requirement for a greaser either.
It is is important to understand that for a pilot the landing manoeuvre includes the touchdown but it is much more than that. We emphasise on speed, in the right place, within the aircraft parameters using the correct technique. A smooth touchdown will result from all of these but it is not emphasised. A greaser where you have used up half the runway is not a good landing neither the is burying it at the piano keys.