Need receipt from flights 2-3 years ago

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Old Aug 21, 18, 9:00 am
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Need receipt from flights 2-3 years ago

I need some receipts for a number of AUPs and upgrades done on the app from 2-3 years ago. Is there a way to get this from BA? I have the flight details and probably the PNR and e-ticket numbers (and possibly the original e-ticket receipt before the upgrade) but not the AUP receipt.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 9:57 am
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Looking to claim back the tax? Be interested to know how you get on if so.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 12:03 pm
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Originally Posted by bisonrav View Post
Looking to claim back the tax? Be interested to know how you get on if so.
As in you're interested in how I get on getting the receipts or claiming tax back?
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Old Aug 21, 18, 12:32 pm
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Both really, I'm considering going back to self assessment as there would be a fairly substantial windfall if the claims stick. Also what constitutes a receipt as far as the IR are concerned.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 12:53 pm
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I don't see why the claim would fail. I actually read the entire booklet from HMRC on this matter, available here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/490-employee-travel-a-tax-and-nics-guide

A lot of people seen to hang to the fact that the expense might be considered unnecessary. The thing is, you just have to read the booklet to see that the necessity test is not about the expense being necessary but all about the trip being necessary. HMRC doesn't care if you've taken a £1 Megabus to Edinburgh or a £700 full fare J ticket.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by bisonrav View Post
Both really, I'm considering going back to self assessment as there would be a fairly substantial windfall if the claims stick. Also what constitutes a receipt as far as the IR are concerned.
I don't believe you need to go back to full self-assessment to claim relief on business expenditure which is incurred personally. Have a look at the P87 form: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-in...t-expenses-p87.

To the OP: sorry I'll be no help re getting historical receipts, but good luck nevertheless!
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Old Aug 21, 18, 2:06 pm
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This issue was covered comprehensively in this thread: Upgrade fees tax-deductible (from PAYE)?

I think the conclusion was that for those on PAYE tax, this is a non-starter.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 3:21 pm
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Originally Posted by FrancisA View Post
I think the conclusion was that for those on PAYE tax, this is a non-starter.
On the contrary, reading through (some of!) the link it was somewhat ambiguous but the general view was ‘go for it’. Several examples were given but frankly lots of hot air and ‘what ifs’ - someone even suggested that you could only claim if your company had it as an allowable expense...but then why would you claim? Armchair amateur accountants! IMHO expense claiming is rarely black and white and so if you feel it is appropriate then go for it. If HMRC challenge it then it’s an honest mistake. But they’ve got better things to do and the rules are on balance in your favour.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 3:23 pm
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Sorry - your question was for receipts. Try an email search using ‘upgrade’?
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Old Aug 21, 18, 5:15 pm
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HMRC will process the deduction if you file it via either a structured email or a tax return. Why? Because we operate a ‘pay and file’ system whereby the authorities first and foremost trust the taxpayer to get it right. The claim would, however, fail should HMRC ever open an investigation.

The cost of an upgrade would not meet the ‘necessary’ test where the cost of the lower class ticket was borne by the employer unless there was a medical reason why the employee could not travel in the lower class cabin. The ‘necessary’ test applies to the additional spending in question and not the requirement to travel.

An analogous case would be where an employer provided an employee with perfectly serviceable stationary. If the employee decides instead to write only on gold edged paper from Smythson (and pays for this personally) is the cost of that paper a“necessary” expense of employment for that individual? Absolutely not.

(note that this applies only to a payrolled employee who does not receive a flat rate travel package)

source: am a tax accountant.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 5:22 pm
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Originally Posted by groovy_dhruvy View Post
HMRC will process the deduction if you file it via either a structured email or a tax return. Why? Because we operate a ‘pay and file’ system whereby the authorities first and foremost trust the taxpayer to get it right. The claim would, however, fail should HMRC ever open an investigation.

The cost of an upgrade would not meet the ‘necessary’ test where the cost of the lower class ticket was borne by the employer unless there was a medical reason why the employee could not travel in the lower class cabin. The ‘necessary’ test applies to the additional spending in question and not the requirement to travel.

An analogous case would be where an employer provided an employee with perfectly serviceable stationary. If the employee decides instead to write only on gold edged paper from Smythson (and pays for this personally) is the cost of that paper a“necessary” expense of employment for that individual? Absolutely not.

(note that this applies only to a payrolled employee who does not receive a flat rate travel package)

source: am a tax accountant.
Out of interest have you ever seen HMRC reject such claims?

Further, where an employer has a tiered travel policy, e.g. Y for lower grades and J for higher, why would HMRC not view the difference between Y and J as a BIK?

This just doesn’t stack up to me.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 6:29 pm
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Originally Posted by mmfraser View Post


Out of interest have you ever seen HMRC reject such claims

I’ve never seen such a claim made (let alone rejected), presumably because none of my colleagues would have advised it.

Originally Posted by mmfraser View Post

Further, where an employer has a tiered travel policy, e.g. Y for lower grades and J for higher, why would HMRC not view the difference between Y and J as a BIK?

The BIK system is designed to catch and tax benefits or perks and stop employers from remunerating their employees outside of the tax system. Whether or not something is a BIK depends on whether or not the provision of the goods/services to the employee is necessary for business purposes. Therfore a car provided to an individual for personal use is a BIK. But if an employee arrives at work on public transport and then uses a pool car to visit a client but returns the car to the office car park in the evening there is no personal use and no taxable benefit. Similarly residential accommodation provided by an employer is a BIK unless that accommodation is necessary for the performance of their duties, e.g. a lighthouse keeper.

Where an employee is required to travel on business, the travel itself does not confer a benefit to that individual, irrespective of the travel class. The benefit of sending an executive in J, F or even on a private jet accrues to the company: the expensively remunerated employee arrrives at their destination better rested and therefore better able to perform their job and thereby better able to generate shareholder value. That the individual is more comfortable does not mean that they have received a benefit of any monetary value - their increased personal comfort is merely incidental to the business purpose of the trip.



Originally Posted by mmfraser View Post

This just doesn’t stack up to me.
As is often the case with tax, that’s just the way it is!
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Old Aug 21, 18, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by groovy_dhruvy View Post
Where an employee is required to travel on business, the travel itself does not confer a benefit to that individual, irrespective of the travel class. The benefit of sending an executive in J, F or even on a private jet accrues to the company: the expensively remunerated employee arrrives at their destination better rested and therefore better able to perform their job and thereby better able to generate shareholder value. That the individual is more comfortable does not mean that they have received a benefit of any monetary value - their increased personal comfort is merely incidental to the business purpose of the trip.
You have justified why travelling in business class is a valid business expense. I do not see why HMRC would distinguish between who paid what, but that is a personal view. HMRC disallowing certain classes of employees from flying on the same business in a higher cabin is surely some form of discrimination (even though they will be paying a good portion out of their own pocket)?

Indeed the views across the tax profession alone seem to differ following a brief Google search. I guess submitting these claims is to be considered in line with your risk profile.

Apologies in advance for straying a tad off-topic!
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Old Aug 21, 18, 7:48 pm
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I think I meet the "necessary" test since the guide mentions that it has to do with the fact that a trip is required and doesn't mention anything regarding class of travel to meet that requirement.

Additionally, the guidance is clear that HMRC wouldn't consider an expense unreasonable just because a cheaper alternative is available. The guide goes as far as giving an example of an employee who gets reimbursed by the employer for standard class travel and buys a First class ticket, making it clear that the difference is eligible for tax relief.

Also, other people, including c-w-s said in the thread quoted above that they successfully done this.

I've resubmitted my self-assessment for last year as I had those receipts available and will update this thread when I hear more.
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Old Aug 21, 18, 10:57 pm
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I am not claiming this is a similar thing but this thread has reminded me of the indignation that I felt when an inspection by HMRC decided that my passport renewal cost was not a valid business expense.

Full context is that I had filled my passport after 6 years entirely due to business travel. Hence I was obliged to get a new one. I also used the express service since I couldn't spare my old one for the suggested three week turnaround time, again due to business trips. I had claimed the expense of the passport and expedited processing.

HMRC told me that a passport was not 'wholly and necessarily'' a business expense and an adult was expected to have one these days. I pointed out that I had paid for the old one (and not claimed that) and were it not for my work I would still be using it. No joy.

I still feel sore about it!

(And for the record they found little else wrong so it wasn't a case of wanting to throw the book at me).
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