Sorry GGL on a Full-Flex J Ticket - Your Delay is Under 5 Hours We Wouldnt Help You
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Sorry GGL on a Full-Flex J Ticket - Your Delay is Under 5 Hours We Wouldnt Help You
Recently had a situation where my flight was delayed 1.5 hours to JFK. It was a later service and thus the different arrival time was material to me given a morning meeting. Im a GGL and was traveling on a fully-flex J ticket (about 6K GBP r/t). I called my travel agent and asked to be moved to a slightly earlier service. The response from BA was that the flight delay was under FIVE (!) hours and therefore any change had to be processed under the fare rules (which would have cost about 3K GBP due to inventory) and they would not make an exception due to my status/CIV score. They said maybe the airport coudl change it under their discretion but no guarantees (this would have meant leaving my family earlier and potentially sitting around the CCR for 4.5 hours if the check-in desk said no so I declined).
I have low expectations for anything that involves British and customer services in the same sentence. But even by British and BAs standards of inflexibility, I was shocked at the response here. A similar call to AA or UA would have likely resulted in a flight change in less than five minutes and likely the same response for people with lesser status. On day of travel, sorting IRROPS trumps fare rules.
(1) Given that the TA warned me this was going to be the likely response, I assume the five-hour rule is actually real and enforced, even for GGLs. But curious on others experiences in similar situations?
(2) Should I have called the GGL line myself?
I have low expectations for anything that involves British and customer services in the same sentence. But even by British and BAs standards of inflexibility, I was shocked at the response here. A similar call to AA or UA would have likely resulted in a flight change in less than five minutes and likely the same response for people with lesser status. On day of travel, sorting IRROPS trumps fare rules.
(1) Given that the TA warned me this was going to be the likely response, I assume the five-hour rule is actually real and enforced, even for GGLs. But curious on others experiences in similar situations?
(2) Should I have called the GGL line myself?
#2
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Can I just point out that a Fully Flex ticket would not attract a 3k fare difference, so clearly not a fully flex ticket...
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The five hour rule is for a refund due to long delays, that in the Conditions of Carriage. Being on a TA inflexible ticket really doesn't help here (and that is the root issue here incidentally). Calling GGL within 24 hours of departure may have been more productive, Going to JFK T7 almost certainly would have worked. If you had run this past this forum at the time I suspect we could have checked the loads and found out if - as is often the case - T7 would have wanted to move people anyway. I think it was your choice not to do that, in any event they could have gone on the original service. But frankly stuff happens with air travel, and whether you're on an expensive ticket and Zircon status, or a 300 ticket in Blue, the impact is unlikely to be any different to what it is.
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The five hour rule is for a refund due to long delays, that in the Conditions of Carriage. Being on a TA inflexible ticket really doesn't help here (and that is the root issue here incidentally). Calling GGL within 24 hours of departure may have been more productive, Going to JFK T7 almost certainly would have worked. If you had run this past this forum at the time I suspect we could have checked the loads and found out if - as is often the case - T7 would have wanted to move people anyway. I think it was your choice not to do that, in any event they could have gone on the original service. But frankly stuff happens with air travel, and whether you're on an expensive ticket and Zircon status, or a 300 ticket in Blue, the impact is unlikely to be what it is.
There are are many times travel delays are what they are. This was not necessarily one of them. And if I was on AA or UA (or probably D.L.) the airline would have accommodated a proactive request to reduce my delay and probably would have done so for the guy on the cheap ticket with no status as well.
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It all sounds a bit strange. First, I am not aware of a 5 hour rule. I thought it was 2 hours though I may be wrong? Second, trying to understand the actual detail. I assume that this was the outbound part of a return so that a change would attract fare recalculation? Even then I wonder what bucket this was booked in and what was available as a 9k J ticket to JFK whilst keeping the same return would seem unusual. Third, indeed, unfortunately, the BA back office will help you in case of timetable changes but not of expected delays on the day. That is very much airport control and discretion. My guess is that if this was indeed booked in - say, C and the delay was confirmed as 1h30 at the time you arrived, with you being GGL, the airport would have quite likely accommodated you on the previous flight if there was space. That said, if only J seats were selling, which the price difference you quote suggests, it may well have been overbooked in the first place.
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Removed - misunderstood post CWS has answered
Last edited by rssfed23; Aug 19, 2018 at 5:23 am
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Five hours for refunds per Conditions of Carriage on delays, which is likely to be stuck to with a TA ticket - 9 b3. Two hours for movement due to pre-advertised changes (e.g. schedule change) this is under the Conditions of Carriage - 9 a3 - however the 2 hour rule is a back office understanding of that, so it can be argued further. Unofficially 2 hours for delays when there is an alternative service appears to be the lever at airports to get a change, but it's still unlikely if it's not a 125 ticket or if it is Avios. Golds and above may well get that if calling up but the airport is generally better.
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Five hours for refunds per Conditions of Carriage on delays, which is likely to be stuck to with a TA ticket. Two hours for movement due to pre-advertised changes (e.g. schedule change) this is under the Conditions of Carriage however the 2 hour rule is a back office understanding of that, so it can be argued further. Unofficially 2 hours for delays when there is an alternative service appears to be the lever at airports to get a change, but it's still unlikely if it's not a 125 ticket or if it is Avios.
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It never hurts to try calling the GGL line yourself or HUACA but given the choice of paying someone EU compensation or a 3k discretion (as it sounds like thats the fare difference here) Im not surprised they went with the former (which may result in no loss to them if some time is made up en route).
5 hours before changes seems pretty fair to me as well - BA have to draw a line somewhere otherwise itd be chaos if every GGL had a DYKWIA moment every time they were delayed a hour or more.
If someone flys enough to reach GGL with BA they should already have the right expectations of BA customer service and Im usually surprised that people get so surprised when the world isnt magically different and fare rules remain the same as GGL. Whats improved over standard gold most would consider enough.
5 hours before changes seems pretty fair to me as well - BA have to draw a line somewhere otherwise itd be chaos if every GGL had a DYKWIA moment every time they were delayed a hour or more.
If someone flys enough to reach GGL with BA they should already have the right expectations of BA customer service and Im usually surprised that people get so surprised when the world isnt magically different and fare rules remain the same as GGL. Whats improved over standard gold most would consider enough.
My expectations arent for an override of the fare rules, just for common customer service to allow me to get to my destination at a more preferable time due to a delay. Requests that are easily accommodated on other airlines regardless of status. As I said, I have low expectations of BA and England in general. But call me a fool that I didnt think it was this bad...
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It all sounds a bit strange. First, I am not aware of a 5 hour rule. I thought it was 2 hours though I may be wrong? Second, trying to understand the actual detail. I assume that this was the outbound part of a return so that a change would attract fare recalculation? Even then I wonder what bucket this was booked in and what was available as a 9k J ticket to JFK whilst keeping the same return would seem unusual. Third, indeed, unfortunately, the BA back office will help you in case of timetable changes but not of expected delays on the day. That is very much airport control and discretion. My guess is that if this was indeed booked in - say, C and the delay was confirmed as 1h30 at the time you arrived, with you being GGL, the airport would have quite likely accommodated you on the previous flight if there was space. That said, if only J seats were selling, which the price difference you quote suggests, it may well have been overbooked in the first place.
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I personally wouldnt book a flight where a small delay of <2hours wouldnt be acceptable to me, but I can understand you desire to spend as much time with your family as possible.
My personal experience with American carriers more recently is they have become less flexible, and changes are quite clunky, whereas only 2 years ago they seamed easy, I wonder why this is.
Booking direct with the airline does tend to help and others have pointed, flexibility in BAs operation is more likely at the airport than over the phone (opposite to AA for example).
Hope you nevertheless had had an enjoyable flight and hopefully made some time up in the air.
My personal experience with American carriers more recently is they have become less flexible, and changes are quite clunky, whereas only 2 years ago they seamed easy, I wonder why this is.
Booking direct with the airline does tend to help and others have pointed, flexibility in BAs operation is more likely at the airport than over the phone (opposite to AA for example).
Hope you nevertheless had had an enjoyable flight and hopefully made some time up in the air.
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If you went to Heathrow and explained the situatoon they very well most probably would have rebooked you if the preceding flight had free seats.
You could, of course, choose a different carrier or avoid Britain completely should the notion of travel to said country disappoints you so dearly.
#14
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[My expectations aren’t for an override of the fare rules, just for common customer service to allow me to get to my destination at a more preferable time due to a delay. Requests that are easily accommodated on other airlines regardless of status. As I said, I have low expectations of BA and England in general. But call me a fool that I didn’t think it was this bad...
If it was a full fareJ ticket as indicated , I cannot see why there would have been any fare difference - to get away earlier, with such a fare, you should have been simply able to cancel , get refund for the inbound flight and rebook on another carrier
Looking at fares on EF, it does seem that the JFK-LHR J fare is around GBP11,000
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The entire US - at least amongst the big three - operates this way. If a flight is delayed beyond a token amount, the airline will accommodate any reasonable request regardless of fare rules/inventory etc. if seats arent available then there is a very organized standby system. []
My expectations arent for an override of the fare rules, just for common customer service to allow me to get to my destination at a more preferable time due to a delay. Requests that are easily accommodated on other airlines regardless of status. As I said, I have low expectations of BA and England in general. But call me a fool that I didnt think it was this bad...
My expectations arent for an override of the fare rules, just for common customer service to allow me to get to my destination at a more preferable time due to a delay. Requests that are easily accommodated on other airlines regardless of status. As I said, I have low expectations of BA and England in general. But call me a fool that I didnt think it was this bad...
I realise you may prefer the US system (I do too actually, as someone with access to an efficient phone line) but the difference is not about who is more flexible here, more about who within the airline system is allowed to make use of that flexibility.