nanyang

I find this discussion intriguing.

I tried SQ premium Y SIN-HKG return last year, and I thought I was just paying for a better seat. Can't recall anything specific about drinks, meals, menu cards etc. As noted above, it's not realistic to expect a business class product at those prices.

jhneoh

I recently flew WTP on the 787 from KUL-LHR for my first ever BA flight and was very impressed. The food was surprisingly good, the seats were comfortable and the IFE was fine. No complaints at all really.

jimlad48

I flew VS PE last year and found it really good for a daytime flight and awful for an overnight. The experience (particularly on their dreamliner) really hits the sweet spot for me- I think BA could learn a lot from it.

amanx

Yes the main is from the Club menu (or at least was the last ime I flew in April). and can be preselected when flying from London.

I have been told they dont serve sparkling wine on way home due the the shorter taxi, but as said they manage in CW;

I have tried the new CW, and unfortunately actually paid for it. Very slow service, no wine with meal til end of main and they never came back. And no amenity kit. Beding was better, but that was it.

mjh0

In terms of PE product, my favourite had to be the Air New Zealand PE product on the 747 around 2007-ish. They were basically modified Y seats - extra width, extra pitch, and a legrest. The soft product was nothing short of fab. It was basically a slight mod of the J cabin food and beverage (3 choices of main rather an 4, one less choice of starter, one less choice of dessert). The main meals were otherwise the same as J. Wine and liquor were all the same as J. The second meal was pretty much the same as J. The afternoon tea you got LHR-LAX was first rate. It was promoted with an advertising campaign in the UK which proclaimed "We upgrade your tastebuds as well as your legs".

This was at a time when most airlines (BA, Virgin) were focusing on the "Economy" and not the "Premium", so apart from the bigger seat, all other aspects of service were pretty much Y.

I felt the Air NZ PE offering went downhill when the 777-300 came on the scene - PE basically got it's own menu which wasn't the J menu and wasn't the Y menu either, while the "Spaceseat" was pretty nasty to fly in despite it apparently being thoroughly researched - negative feedback meant they ended up taking a row of seats out on the 777-300, and reverted to large recliners on the Dreamliner. I felt the product, which previously had a clear proposition - more legroom than Y, with J catering and service level, became a bit lost - a weird side-saddle seat, an IFE screen mere inches from your face, and burgers.

That brings us back to the BA soft product. Back then BA eventually caved under the competition and uplifted the hot main course in PE from being a Y meal to a J meal. VS had already taken it one stage further and upgraded the whole meal.

However, now that the BA J product has been upgraded, the hot meals in PE are no longer the same as in J and this can be seen easily with flights ex-LHR when your pre-order main course options change as a result of a UuA, POUG or Op-Up at <24 hours out.

This may partly go toward explaining why meal choice is percieved as becoming a problem in PE - there is, overall, fewer of each dish now loaded, so there's no chance to make any shortfall up with meals from J anymore.

I'm actually looking forward to giving AA's PE service a spin next month.

Back to the question of what I would want to include in a BA PE service overhaul:
* Uniform Pre-depature drink service regardless of inbound or outbound.
* A fully upgraded main meal - not just the hot meal, but everything, on crockery.
* No pre-packaged sickly desserts.
* Cheese (though I seem to remember getting cheese out of LGW in PE earlier this year, even if it was pre-packaged).
* A plastics-free drinks service.
* A better quality second meal.
* Attention given to aircraft with the older seating product until retirement or refit to ensure they at least don't look shabby.

amanx

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Brisbane Road

As others have said, I think there's now quite a significant gap between 'old PE' and 'new PE' for me. To the extent that in my eyes, one is getting done over by BA by buying a Premium Economy ticket on a route with a 777, only to then end up with the old one, which frankly is rubbish. (the 747 one at least has an upgraded IFE/Power outlets etc but it is the same seat with a new look).

Having said that, the upgraded one is pretty good I find. I'm 6ft 3 and the additional legroom is great. The seat has a really nice recline to it and I find it infinitely better than for sleeping than Y. Wonder if one of the CC forum members could comment on this- is the main meal exactly the same as what they're getting a few rows up? From what I've seen recently, it looks similar but we seem to be getting a smaller portion in WTP- is that right?

In terms of improvements, the food could be better, although I've found it's gotten so measly and poor in Y that it is a welcome upgrade. Second meal non-existent in terms of any improvement on economy so they could do a lot better there. Hot towels/PDBs etc welcome- but I could live without. Ultimately it's about the seat and space and 'new WTP' does well in this category for me. It's just the old one I find very cheeky to be offering out the same experience at the same (now pretty high) prices and getting a very dated, rubbish product.

jah718

I find the WTP on the updated aircraft, ie the A380 style seat to be a very good product. Obviously it is not business, but I find the main plus points from me are:

• far more space, more comfortable seat and better recline
• the welcome drink is a welcome feature, although the sparkling wine only at LHR is annoying
• I find the meal to be significantly better than WT

Improvements I would like to see, some of which others have mentioned:

• better bedding, nice blankets and pillows would make it all the more comfortable
• glassware for drinks would also be a welcome addition
• second meal definitely needs to be improved

Apart from that, I think BA actually have a very competitive product and I would probably pay a 50% premium for it. I have also had good success getting upgraded from WTP to CW. I would be more concerned that BA will make cuts and ruin a good product, I would rather it stay the same than risk anything being cut....

Andriyko

Well, the seat (aka more real estate) is what we pay for in premium classes.

lev441

Definitely agree that Virgin Atlantic pretty much has Premium Economy nailed on.

I've made several trips using the upgrade vouchers on my MBNA credit card, and i've not been disappointed at all. Great food, great service by the crew and I find the seat is the best W seat there is - I think it's bigger than the WTP seat?

The old BA WTP product is very poor, a friend of mine who blew most of his avios balance flying to the US west coast was really disappointed when he got on board and saw the seat. He said he wished he just booked a cash ticket and traveled in economy.

Mikey Mike Mike

Thanks for all of the feedback. I think it shows that WTP for biz and personal travel meets everyone's needs. The food is def not from the Biz menu - not just out of LGW but I flew into LHR with chicken "slop" with the new service up front. Sometimes beef is on the menu from LHR (do they have shares in cattle farms?) but the choice is only two mains, no starter (and I ignore what they call the salad where the dressing cost more than the leaves and tomato slice), vile mass produced pudding (a list of ingredients would make interesting reading) and no cheese.
I like the fact in Y and PE, BA now offer two wines. (it costs no more as the same quantity is uplifted).
I travel 6 - 8 times a year between Toronto and London - two trips in J /F on avios and the rest in PE. Three trips and a couple of AA jumps to New York on business help me retain silver every year. (180 TPs per round trip)
I value the space, and with 3-4 rows it is generally calm and child free. It is clearly a useful launch pad for voluntary or involuntary upgrades to Biz, and for the comfort alone, it's worth the money. As LHR and LGW move to the densified 777, I can't see me every returning to Y if it's densified.
I recently flew AC from Toronto to Sydney via Vancouver on a 777-200LR which is densified in coach. I paid $4500 bucks return in PE and it was worth every cent!! Walking back to coach, and 10 across - it was jammed for a 16 hour flight!! Everyone looked miserable, wedged in with arms and legs spilling into the aisle. Similar service to BA too in PE with a meat slop as the main, and the second and third meals the same as Y. (at least they were very generous with the booze)

The LGW 777's have over doubled the PE cabin size with biz reduced to just the front cabin of 4 rows. (I assume the rear cabin of two rows is PE with the divider removed. My flight in May to LGW was only 20% full as the route was still building up it's loads, and so I went back to Y and had a lovely flatbed experience with extra pillows and blankets to take the lumps out of the seats and had 3 hours kip without anyone stepping over me

I'm glad to hear it's profitable, and my main point is for a little bit of thought and money ie glass for drinks, prosecco on both legs, and another fiver spent on the meal, they could really go up a notch. Friends flying Virgin and Qantas report PE to be amazing - a term I've not heard with the BA product.

With priority check in, fast track, priority boarding and two bags - I think it is a decent offering. I'd dare to suggest that J is the new first, PE is the new biz and if you're at the back - you get what you pay for!

The_Diamond_Z

+1 on both counts.
I view it as a better Economy class not as a discount Club World.
VS & QF seats are nicer and the QF experience is much better, but BA has this product nailed for the moment.

GrayBDG

Fully agree with you @mjho - used to fly regularly between LHR and HKG, and took the NZ 747 in PE as much as possible. As well as the excellent soft product there were some PE seats upstairs (10, IIRC) behind a smaller business cabin. Felt very personal and comfortable for a 12 hr flight.

fruitcage

As with many things BA, all they need to do is bring the average standard up their best.

2sk21

I am a big fan of WT+ and have switched to BA primarily because of this offering. I really don't care about the food but I love the extra recline, the foot rest and wider seats. I have flown WT+ on 777 and 787 and liked both.
On my trips this year, for LHR-India flights, WT+ is almost always only half full even though Y is completely full. WT+ seems much more popular transatlantic though.