Cancelled LHR-ZRH (BA720, 07 Aug) - Thunderstorms or not?
Aug 7, 2018, 1:31 pm
#1
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Cancelled LHR-ZRH (BA720, 07 Aug) - Thunderstorms or not?
Was scheduled to be on the last LHR-ZRH rotation today, but on arriving at F check in today, got handed a boarding pass for tomorrow's BA710 (first flight of the day). Check in agent was perplexed - apparently mine was one of the (un)lucky 10 flights tonight to be cancelled "due to the Thunderstorms". First I had heard of it - no text or push notification on the app, and it was still showing my scheduled 1945 departure when I refreshed as I left home at 1645 ... even though it was apparently cancelled at 1400.
The ticketing agent in First Wing tried valiantly to get me on the last LX rotation at 2005, which was still operating, noting that seats also existed on the last LCY BA departure but no chance to get from LHR to LCY in time for it at 1830.
Offer of a hotel for the night was not proactively made, nor any mention of the provisions (duty of care) under EU261.
Notwithstanding that the IRROPS handling was poor (in theory I could've looked at a screen some point between kerb and check in and been aware a few minutes earlier), some questions arise:
- if cancelled at 1400 (words of the ticket agent) why was no text made and push notification on the app?
- if BA's justification for cancelling the 1945 departure tonight is Thunderstorms, then why did the last LCY rotation go out without issue (admittedly 75mins earlier) and why was LX still operating to ZRH at more or less the same time.
- with no offering of a hotel, etc., did BA fail at its minimum duty of care?
(For reference the other cancellations, from memory, were Basel, Geneva, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast - so 10 flights in total, 1 per destination).
The ticketing agent in First Wing tried valiantly to get me on the last LX rotation at 2005, which was still operating, noting that seats also existed on the last LCY BA departure but no chance to get from LHR to LCY in time for it at 1830.
Offer of a hotel for the night was not proactively made, nor any mention of the provisions (duty of care) under EU261.
Notwithstanding that the IRROPS handling was poor (in theory I could've looked at a screen some point between kerb and check in and been aware a few minutes earlier), some questions arise:
- if cancelled at 1400 (words of the ticket agent) why was no text made and push notification on the app?
- if BA's justification for cancelling the 1945 departure tonight is Thunderstorms, then why did the last LCY rotation go out without issue (admittedly 75mins earlier) and why was LX still operating to ZRH at more or less the same time.
- with no offering of a hotel, etc., did BA fail at its minimum duty of care?
(For reference the other cancellations, from memory, were Basel, Geneva, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast - so 10 flights in total, 1 per destination).
Aug 7, 2018, 1:40 pm
#2
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There definitely have been and continue to be quite a few thunderstorms across mainland Europe today. In particular there have been some over France and other parts of Europe affecting airports directly in the path and surround ATC sectors which have had to take more aircraft diverting around. Capacity isn’t limitless so sometimes that means delays or even cancellations.
if you need to confirm the ATC situation at the time the eurocontol site is always useful, you can see the overall sector delay map and click on the tactical update for specific information
https://www.public.nm.eurocontrol.in.../gateway/spec/
if you need to confirm the ATC situation at the time the eurocontol site is always useful, you can see the overall sector delay map and click on the tactical update for specific information
https://www.public.nm.eurocontrol.in.../gateway/spec/
Aug 7, 2018, 1:45 pm
#3
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From EF, WEAN usually means weather and the N is for no EC261 compensation.
Code:
DOBA720/07AUG
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA 720 0 TU 07AUG18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0714
WEAN
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA 720 0 TU 07AUG18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
LHR 1945 TU JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:50
HKMLVNOQSG/G
Aug 7, 2018, 2:02 pm
#6
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From EF, WEAN usually means weather and the N is for no EC261 compensation.
Code:
DOBA720/07AUG * OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA 720 0 TU 07AUG18 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) FLIGHT CANCELLED 0714 WEAN *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA 720 0 TU 07AUG18 APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL LHR 1945 TU JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:50 HKMLVNOQSG/G
Interestingly the EF data also says flight was cancelled at 0714
Aug 7, 2018, 2:04 pm
#7
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that time isn’t what it seems. Some discussion of that recently on another thread was clear that it doesn’t mean the flight was cancelled at time 0714, unfortunately it isn’t clear what time it does refer to.
Aug 7, 2018, 2:14 pm
#8
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KARFA - as ever, many thanks. If BA are cancelling for Thunderstorms, then how does that play with LX operating to the same (+20mins) time on the same route?
Regardless of cancelling for thunderstorms, the duty of care (overnight accommodation, meal) doesn't disappear, correct? So by not proactively offering this, they've failed in this regard?
Regardless of cancelling for thunderstorms, the duty of care (overnight accommodation, meal) doesn't disappear, correct? So by not proactively offering this, they've failed in this regard?
Aug 7, 2018, 2:26 pm
#9
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KARFA - as ever, many thanks. If BA are cancelling for Thunderstorms, then how does that play with LX operating to the same (+20mins) time on the same route?
Regardless of cancelling for thunderstorms, the duty of care (overnight accommodation, meal) doesn't disappear, correct? So by not proactively offering this, they've failed in this regard?
Regardless of cancelling for thunderstorms, the duty of care (overnight accommodation, meal) doesn't disappear, correct? So by not proactively offering this, they've failed in this regard?
Re duty of care it’s wrong not to offer it proactively but it still applies. You got it in the end, right? If so, there is not much to do. You may want to highlight this in a brief email with the name of the agent. If they get too many complaints they may get a gentle reminder.
Aug 7, 2018, 2:46 pm
#10
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I have come to the view it is 6 or 7 hours off UK time, so 13:14 or 14:14 BST Most other cases suggest about 6 hours too.
Aug 7, 2018, 2:55 pm
#11
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Re duty of care it’s wrong not to offer it proactively but it still applies. You got it in the end, right? If so, there is not much to do. You may want to highlight this in a brief email with the name of the agent. If they get too many complaints they may get a gentle reminder.
Aug 7, 2018, 3:59 pm
#12
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My OTP-LHR was also delayed for an hour coming back today, the Captain came to talk to the first few rows of CE to discuss in detail (and I suppose to take any flak personally, which I felt was good of him). I pulled up Flightradar24 and it showed several areas of intense precipitation on the direct route to LHR, including over eastern Austria and southern Germany, exactly where the Captain had said he had flow restrictions affecting the flight. Not much was visible closer to LHR.
En route, we were at 37000ft and went past some clouds higher than that - which are not usually the sort you want to route your aircraft through, so I can easily see that restricting aircraft flow.
En route, we were at 37000ft and went past some clouds higher than that - which are not usually the sort you want to route your aircraft through, so I can easily see that restricting aircraft flow.
Aug 8, 2018, 12:13 am
#13
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Did you mention you lived close by to the check-in? The duty of care is to ensure you have accommodation not to ensure you have a hotel, although they should ask you which you would prefer I guess from a customer satusfaction Perspective rather than a legal perspective which may be more of a grey area
in any case, I’d put in for the travel costs and enjoy the fact that you got to sleep in your own bed rather than a hotel and put it down to risks of travel and not worry about it too much.
in any case, I’d put in for the travel costs and enjoy the fact that you got to sleep in your own bed rather than a hotel and put it down to risks of travel and not worry about it too much.
Aug 8, 2018, 12:22 am
#14
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We have had very bad storms across Switzerland over the past couple of evenings. This evening and particularly tomorrow evening (Thursday) will be bad in GVA - beware!!!.
Also LX may divert to GVA if there are problems at ZRH and vice-versa.
Also LX may divert to GVA if there are problems at ZRH and vice-versa.
Aug 8, 2018, 12:35 am
#15
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ZRH seems to be functioning well this morning considering the thunderstorms - just passed under the flight path, with 4 aircraft on approach.