Weather Disruption at Heathrow - 27 July 2018
Jul 28, 2018, 1:09 am
#76
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,672
Thunderstorm forecast for today:
London and UK are in the clear. Central and Eastern Europe much less and disruption are expected for flights overnighting in outstation
As of now 26% of the European flights are +30 min delayed and 35% of this is due to weather.
London and UK are in the clear. Central and Eastern Europe much less and disruption are expected for flights overnighting in outstation
As of now 26% of the European flights are +30 min delayed and 35% of this is due to weather.
Jul 28, 2018, 1:41 am
#77
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Switzerland / Estonia
Programs: AY+ Platinum, BAEC Silver, airbaltic VIP, HH Diamond, Radisson VIP, IHG Diamond Elite
Posts: 6,524
There were some very heavy thunderstorms this morning in Switzerland and it is forecast to continue.
Safe travels all.
Safe travels all.
Jul 28, 2018, 6:39 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 258
I have had a cancellation of an LCY-FRA tomorrow evening, for vague weather reasons. Is BA extending cancellations to tomorrow more generally, or is this a consequence (aircraft / crew out of position etc).
Jul 28, 2018, 7:08 am
#80
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,672
FRA TAF:
TAF EDDF 281100Z 2812/2918 24010KT CAVOK TEMPO 2812/2817 26020G45KT 3000 TSRAGR BKN025CB
BECMG 2818/2820 26005KT
BECMG 2822/2901 04004KT
BECMG 2908/2910 20006KT
The TAF for LCY do not extend to tomorrow, but there is forecast to be convective rain in London tomorrow afternoon (no thunderstorm).
TAF EDDF 281100Z 2812/2918 24010KT CAVOK TEMPO 2812/2817 26020G45KT 3000 TSRAGR BKN025CB
BECMG 2818/2820 26005KT
BECMG 2822/2901 04004KT
BECMG 2908/2910 20006KT
The TAF for LCY do not extend to tomorrow, but there is forecast to be convective rain in London tomorrow afternoon (no thunderstorm).
Jul 28, 2018, 7:23 am
#82
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Anglia, England
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 2,056
H
Jul 28, 2018, 7:45 am
#83
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: WAW ✈ LHR ✈ GLA
Programs: BA GfL/GGL/CCR, HH Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,497
Days like today are challenging...
Due to the weather around the southern part of the UK, pretty much every departure route out of, and into Heathrow was affected/restricted this afternoon. Normally, departures on the same initial routing are required to be 2 minutes apart in the main. For varying periods and times all the routes were temporarily 3/4/5/6/8/10 minutes, and this was an ever changing situation as the weather developed and moved. As the day evolved the hardest hit route was the North Easterly departure which overflies Brookmans Park in Hertfordshire. Pretty much all flights to Scandinavia/Northern Europe/Russia and the Northern half of Asia take this route on departure. Today the route was unavailable due to the weather for long periods of time, as whenever we tried to depart a flight on that route they could not stay close to the prescribed route and thus further departures were not allowed. To put this into perspective, one Finnair outbound to Helsinki ended up overflying Manchester due to weather avoiding...
The problem then is expectation management and having 30-50 aircraft waiting (patiently in the main) to depart, but you literally cannot tell how long it might be. At one point we were departing on that route 1 every 5 minutes, or 40% of normal capacity. There were approx 30 aircraft in the queue for that route, so as unfortunate as it was, I could tell the last one waiting it was - at that point - 2.5hrs before they would go. Then someone went off track and for the safety of the sector departures were required to be 10 minutes apart - making the delay upto 5 hrs. Then the situation improved after to 1 every 4 minutes, and thus down to 2 hours again.
This may seem illogical or any other kind of negative. But with an ever changing weather situation it's so hard to get predictability for 5 minutes, let alone 2 hours. We genuinely try to be as efficient as we can as much as we can - days like today you simply cannot do that in the air.
I did tell some pilots that I didn't have any idea how long the delay would be - in fact the BA798 to HEL was one of those. I probably said similar to BA870 to BUD. I tried to give as much info to the crews to pass on to anyone who was waiting to go somewhere - even when they had an unpleasant length of delay.
If you were affected by todays weather, I apologise for something outwith my control. But rest assured our first (as always) priority was getting people to their destination safely, and where we could do that expeditiously, then today that was a bonus. Hopefully any delay or cancellation has not caused anyone to miss a truly important event.
Due to the weather around the southern part of the UK, pretty much every departure route out of, and into Heathrow was affected/restricted this afternoon. Normally, departures on the same initial routing are required to be 2 minutes apart in the main. For varying periods and times all the routes were temporarily 3/4/5/6/8/10 minutes, and this was an ever changing situation as the weather developed and moved. As the day evolved the hardest hit route was the North Easterly departure which overflies Brookmans Park in Hertfordshire. Pretty much all flights to Scandinavia/Northern Europe/Russia and the Northern half of Asia take this route on departure. Today the route was unavailable due to the weather for long periods of time, as whenever we tried to depart a flight on that route they could not stay close to the prescribed route and thus further departures were not allowed. To put this into perspective, one Finnair outbound to Helsinki ended up overflying Manchester due to weather avoiding...
The problem then is expectation management and having 30-50 aircraft waiting (patiently in the main) to depart, but you literally cannot tell how long it might be. At one point we were departing on that route 1 every 5 minutes, or 40% of normal capacity. There were approx 30 aircraft in the queue for that route, so as unfortunate as it was, I could tell the last one waiting it was - at that point - 2.5hrs before they would go. Then someone went off track and for the safety of the sector departures were required to be 10 minutes apart - making the delay upto 5 hrs. Then the situation improved after to 1 every 4 minutes, and thus down to 2 hours again.
This may seem illogical or any other kind of negative. But with an ever changing weather situation it's so hard to get predictability for 5 minutes, let alone 2 hours. We genuinely try to be as efficient as we can as much as we can - days like today you simply cannot do that in the air.
I did tell some pilots that I didn't have any idea how long the delay would be - in fact the BA798 to HEL was one of those. I probably said similar to BA870 to BUD. I tried to give as much info to the crews to pass on to anyone who was waiting to go somewhere - even when they had an unpleasant length of delay.
If you were affected by todays weather, I apologise for something outwith my control. But rest assured our first (as always) priority was getting people to their destination safely, and where we could do that expeditiously, then today that was a bonus. Hopefully any delay or cancellation has not caused anyone to miss a truly important event.
My partner was flying to Athens yesterday - scheduled departure time 20:50, boarding completed at 21:20, pushed back at 23:03, took off 23:30, flight time 3h09 (according to flightradar). While I advised them to buy water / snack on the way to the gate, they've assumed at least water should be provided. Right after door closed the pilot warned they wouldn't taken off for another 2 hours - so they had a pretty accurate information how long would it take. While parked at the gate British Airways did not offer anything to stranded pax, nor after take off. BoB cart sold out pretty soon, so 2/3 of the plane had nothing to drink or eat.
Separate question if the right to care kicks in since the door closed in less than 2h after scheduled departure time. Would BA used this as an excuse to refuse the right to care?
Quite frankly - if I was flying to Athens last night, I would much preffer to sit in the lounge or inside the terminal, where I had unrestricted access to drinks and snacks and board when the ATC was sure we would be allowed to take off in next 30-40 minutes. Even if that meant longer delay. My partner spent almost 6 hours trapped on the plane - other people spend 4-6 hours on the ground - I've seen BA11 delayed even more.
Jul 28, 2018, 9:55 am
#85
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 258
Jul 28, 2018, 11:11 am
#86
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 258
Could I trouble someone with the appropriate Expertflyer account / any other sources to check if there’s any information on BA8736 LCY-FRA tomorrow (29/07/2018 - 19:10 departure) please?
Jul 28, 2018, 11:18 am
#87
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,684
DOBA8736/29JUL
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA8736 1 SU 29JUL18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0530
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA8736 1 SU 29JUL18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
LCY 1910 SU JCDRI/M YB/S E70 1:30
HKMLVNOQSG/S
FRA 2140 SU 1:30
COMMENTS-
1.LCY FRA - AIRCRAFT OWNER BA CITYFLYER
2.LCY FRA - OPERATED BY BA CITYFLYER
3.LCY FRA - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
4.LCY FRA - ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
5.LCY FRA - 9/ NON-SMOKING
6.LCY FRA - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
7.LCY FRA - CO2/PAX* 109.74 KG ECO, 109.74 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
E70 C 16 M 60
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA8736 1 SU 29JUL18
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FLIGHT CANCELLED 0530
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA8736 1 SU 29JUL18
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
LCY 1910 SU JCDRI/M YB/S E70 1:30
HKMLVNOQSG/S
FRA 2140 SU 1:30
COMMENTS-
1.LCY FRA - AIRCRAFT OWNER BA CITYFLYER
2.LCY FRA - OPERATED BY BA CITYFLYER
3.LCY FRA - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
4.LCY FRA - ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
5.LCY FRA - 9/ NON-SMOKING
6.LCY FRA - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
7.LCY FRA - CO2/PAX* 109.74 KG ECO, 109.74 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
E70 C 16 M 60
Jul 28, 2018, 1:02 pm
#88
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BAEC GGL
Posts: 261
Quite frankly - if I was flying to Athens last night, I would much preffer to sit in the lounge or inside the terminal, where I had unrestricted access to drinks and snacks and board when the ATC was sure we would be allowed to take off in next 30-40 minutes. Even if that meant longer delay. My partner spent almost 6 hours trapped on the plane - other people spend 4-6 hours on the ground - I've seen BA11 delayed even more.
- As has been outlined it's difficult to predict what the delay will be at any given point from the ATC perspective and I suspect every change in that and the outbound routes which were/weren't closed meant a recalculation by the airline around crew hours and such. The end result is the delay may change at short notice and they want to be in a position to get the flight out quickly if that happens. Unfortunately (though perhaps unsurprisingly) a minority of passengers, if not on the plane, will be nowhere to be found after a couple of hours when they call for immediate boarding and they seem to invariably be the passengers with checked bags...slots get missed etc.
- In a number of cases, I suspect they've boarded the plane and taxied to some corner of Heathrow to free up the stand for inbound arrivals, certainly I've been through that a few times.
If you take BA's mission for the day as getting as many people as possible to their destination with as little delay as possible (and it is, because they won't to pay costs incurred in overnights stays etc unnecessarily), then it makes sense to board people as soon as the aircraft is available and looks likely to depart within a couple of hours at least. Lack of drinks provision etc isn't ideal and is, I'd guess primarily a short haul problem (certainly, in similar situations on long haul I've been offered drinks) where there just isn't enough loaded to allow everybody on the plane a glass of water and the logistics of arranging that for dozens of flights at short notice isn't practical or seen as worthwhile, at the end of the day people will survive for a few hours even if it's not necessarily pleasant.
Jul 28, 2018, 1:13 pm
#89
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 875
Quite correct. Just as a 30min delay can instantly become a 2hr delay, so it could also become no delay and the way is clear for your flight to push back.
For LHRATCO’s benefit, I had a very trying morning yesterday in the office, trying to write a few PowerPoints before I left work. I think I only managed 4 cups of tea! Terrible!
For LHRATCO’s benefit, I had a very trying morning yesterday in the office, trying to write a few PowerPoints before I left work. I think I only managed 4 cups of tea! Terrible!
Jul 28, 2018, 2:30 pm
#90
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
These situations are unavoidable really, but the measure of a decent airline is how they respond.
It isn't beyond the wit of man to get 150 bottles of water and 100 bags of snacks to a plane, but it does cost money. But by doing nothing you save the money, and hope that few people submit receipts - same principle as telling people to book their own hotels knowing some people will not have the capacity to do it.
That as I recall is how Ryanair used to carry on.
It isn't beyond the wit of man to get 150 bottles of water and 100 bags of snacks to a plane, but it does cost money. But by doing nothing you save the money, and hope that few people submit receipts - same principle as telling people to book their own hotels knowing some people will not have the capacity to do it.
That as I recall is how Ryanair used to carry on.
